Healthy materials: Moore & Giles sustainable leather
The role of leather in sustainable interior design and healthy buildings
The ‘Green & Healthy Places’ podcast series takes a deep-dive into the role of sustainability, wellbeing and community in real estate and hospitality.
wellbeing & sustainability in real estate and hospitality
In episode 18 of the Green & Healthy Places podcast we take a deep dive into the world of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate & hospitality.
talking sustainable leather
Today I’m chatting with Beverly McAuley, Director of Education & Sustainability for Moore & Giles leather in Virginia in the US, a leading proponent of high quality, sustainable leather with four olive-tanned leather products in their range and many more such innovations in the pipeline.
Circular Economy
We discuss the state of the leather industry today, how Moore & Giles view leather as a waste diversion strategy from the meat industry and how they now use a Cradle 2 Cradle, plant-based die that is a byproduct of the olive industry to create a Circular Economy tanning process.
Quality natural leather has a long life and improves with age unlike so called eco or vegan leather that is basically a completely different material, likely PVC or vinyl layered with chemicals.
GUEST / BEVERLY MCAULEY , DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION & SUSTAINABILITY FOR MOORE & GILES LEATHER
HOSt / MATT MORLEY
======================
TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS COURTESY OF OTTER.AI - excuse the typos!
Welcome to Episode 18 of the green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we take a deep dive into the world of well being and sustainability in real estate and hospitality. I'm your host, Matt Morley, coming to you from the World of Wellness, real estate and interiors.
This time I am chatting with Beverly McCauley, Director of Education and sustainability for moore and Giles leather in the USA, a leading proponent of high quality, sustainable leather. We discussed the state of the leather industry today, how more in jails few leather as a waste diversion strategy from the meat industry, and how they now have developed a cradle to cradle plant based dye that is a byproduct itself of the olive industry to create a truly circular economy, tanning process. Quality natural leather has a long life and improves with age. Unlike so called eco or vegan leather that's basically completely different material, likely PVC or vinyl lead with lots of chemicals. So there's real food for thought in this conversation.
Thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate your time. As an intro, I just wanted to take a little step back to set the scene because I know you're you're an ambassador for the ILFI living future Institute, you have your own nature based retreats. And I know that mindfulness meditation is a part of your your, So you've got a number of interests, you're also Director of Education and sustainability for Moore & Giles . So what's the career path that's led you to where you are today? And how do you balance all these different interests?
Balance is a great word and always a challenge. But, you know, it's been interesting, I have a degree in design, interior design. And quickly after college many years ago, I learned that I really enjoyed learning, I just wanted to keep learning and quit quickly moved into being a representative for various natural products throughout my career as a resource to my clients. So that's that's the way I've always liked to be in my job in my career. On the flip side, my personal life, I've been a nature freak, since I was little, that's where I found my peace. That's where I found my inspiration, and always would prefer to be outside versus not. And so through the years, I kept finding that my interests had these different lives. So the nature based retreats, the meditation, you know, it all centered around health and wellness, and then several years ago, really made that connection between nature and health and wellness. And then this position, career wise, has just been that final puzzle piece to really make it all come together. So now all of these experiences and pieces of me are put together in this really great puzzle where I can bring people together through my love of nature, and connect people to it and support it through action. And through educating folks and trying to lead the way as much as possible in this industry to help people make wise decisions when it comes to the environment and our planet.
President that sort of leads us neatly into second question then around the actual more angels business today and and its structure and products. So you've got this passion and interest and an understanding of nature and natural products and who you are today as directors and sustainability and education. So can you just describe to us the various products or services and and the business structure of Moore & Giles today.
And the business structure basically, you know, we are a leather company. We bring leather into the United States from various tanneries around the world is pending on their forte you know their their product. We also have a bag and accessory division as well that we host from our same headquarters in Virginia. Yeah, so we, we have over a Gosh, several 100 different products, colors, we inventory more leather in the US than any other supplier. And we have, you know, when it comes to sustainability, thankfully, and probably have led the way in the industry, and will continue to do so. So just keep trying to push that push that envelope and help the industry to become more and more sustainable.
Okay, and the main, the key point there then is, is that leather is effectively a byproduct of another industry. So be the byproduct of the beef industry, we can see what we like about that what's good or bad about the beef industry. But your main sort of foundation of the argument is that this is happening anyway. And there's leather would presumably just be left to be thrown away.
That's absolutely the case. It's so funny. I found myself you know, I've been selling or working with leather for 16 years, over 16 years. And I, you know, we would continually say it's a byproduct, it's a byproduct. And then I started realizing a lot of people don't really understand what that means. The leather industry is not the meat industry, the leather industry exists to divert the waste from the meat industry. Okay. So if the leather industry didn't exist, the hides that are produced by the weight waist or by the meat industry would go into the landfill, it'd be it would be a huge environmental issue. There are, gosh, 300,000 plus or minus hides annually, that would be added, I mean, added to the landfills around the world. So the leather industry really is an answer to an otherwise hazardous environmental issue. So that, you know, that's that's the first thing that I think people aren't aware of, and don't really realize they still I get clients who will say or people who will say, well, don't you kill, kill the cow for the hide, and I will tell you, no cow is killed for its hide. Same would go for sheep, you know, people eat lamb as well. Everything that we provide is a byproduct. In other words, everything that we provide is diverted waste, and it's tanned to be converted into something useful, and functional, and, and gorgeous and long lasting. So yeah, that's, that's a big a big learning curve for folks. And usually, once they get past that, it's a lot easier to look at, look at and consider leather. And the other thing that is kind of a byproduct of that is, you know, people ask about animal welfare. Again, the people tanning leather are not the farmers raising the cows, or the meat industry, rendering those cows. However, over the years, a lot of the tanneries have been able to come together and help create legislation to better the animal welfare down that supply chain to the farmer. So that's kind of an interesting, you know, they didn't have to do that. But but that has happened. It's been a positive influence from the leather industry backward toward the, the farming
with more drugs and prioritize certain certain suppliers that have, for example, set a certain level of environmental standards over others because it's so big, the industry is so huge for you. How is how is the business selecting those that it chooses to work with, versus those that it perhaps doesn't deem appropriate to work with?
You know, tanning leather is been in industry for 1000s of years. I mean, it's just been around for so long. So there's this huge history behind it right. And within, you know, the last several decades, it has been imperative for tanneries to innovate, or die. I mean, if they don't do the right thing or change, they're not going to last very long. Thankfully, we have long standing relationships with our tanneries. So it's more likely for us to work with a company for a long time and work with them, if need be, to help them move forward and be innovative than to just pick up new tanneries every year and drop the other one. So the tanneries is important to us then, therefore, to work with tanneries that are well respected, good to their community good to their people, doing the right thing. You know being reached compliance and you know chemically and environmentally doing the right thing. So a lot of the tanneries we work with on their own without us having to say anything, or doing some really great things, environmentally. And then when something comes along, but is even better that I'm sure we'll probably talk about, like all of tanning, we go to those tanneries and we feel comfortable saying we'd love for you to try this, let's work together and collaborate to make this happen to to once again, keep pushing that forward.
And so just just for those of us who are perhaps less familiar with the structure of the industry as a whole, then the role of the tannery, and then the ultimate sort of the the brand, the company that turns it into a product, in this case more on trial. So the others, you're then buying the skins, the tannery is sourcing the skins, applying that some energy use in that process. And can you just talk us through the details of how that works, because it's not entirely clear to me at least.
Sure. And, you know, I'm sure there are variations around the world. But in general, the farmer I'm just going to go all the way back, the farmer raises the cow or the cattle for the meat and dairy industries. At the end, if a cow is a dairy cow at the end of its life, they're not going to bury it in the backyard, you know, it's going to go to the meat industry. So ultimately, the meat industry by product is then purchased. And sometimes there's someone in between in between there, I'll tell you, that sells it to the tannery. But, you know, some of our tanneries know the farmer where the cow was raised up the hill, just because they're in such close proximity and these little villages in Europe, and some of them get hides from other places and have them trained in but at any rate, the hides come into the tannery, the tannery is the manufacturing process that takes that hide and tans it so that it's no longer basically no longer decomposing, it converts it into leather. So hide isn't really leather until it's been tanned until it's been tanned it is considered a hide or skin. Once it's tanned, then it goes through those processes at the tannery that to make it you know the product that you wear or you sit on, you know, they do all of the finishing processes. At that point, it's been brought over to the supplier like ourselves, who then you know, inspect stores and sells the product. We are somewhat unique with our tanneries and that you know, like I said before we will collaborate and create products with them, just for us or just for our clients. But they do all the the manufacturing process portion.
So the more jobs would be both in one sense, a middleman that then supplies the finished hides to say interior designers or architects who are doing interior fit towels, what have you. But also, in some instances, you create products yourselves such as the furniture bags.
That's true. And we do we sell we're a wholesale company when it comes to our hot the hides of leather. And we sell to a pollsters we sell to furniture manufacturers, you know, those industries as well.
Okay, and so you mentioned the olive green and it's probably the the product that sort of most leapt out from from the research that I've done online just because it just seems Yeah, sort of a fantastic combination of, of ideas and natural products. So obviously, you're very proud of that. Were you involved in its process? I mean, can you just sort of give a description of exactly how you're using olives as as another byproduct to tan? Right? The leather aim itself is a byproduct, right?
Yeah, so it is so cool. And it this process totally is what re energize me with within the industry got me excited about seeking the role I'm playing now and kind of was that person puzzle piece that connected everything together that I mentioned before. It's the product itself is called a living leader. Okay, that's who makes the product and it's actually it's not the all of itself. It's a byproduct from the olive industry. So it's using a byproduct of Tana byproduct best of both worlds totally plant based. So basically it's the fallen all of leaves from the olive trees or when they prune the olive trees you know for production just like you would prune an apple tree because if you don't, it's not going to render good apples. It's those all have leaves but it also uses I i I'm always learning more and more just the waste from the industry. So when Press the olives to make olive oil, that kind of the more solid waste, you know, that comes from the olive pieces, if you will, that can be used, I mean, all of these different portions of the of the olive industry, the byproducts. And that's an important word when it comes to this process are used to tan leather. So rather than taking something from nature, like tree bark or plant oil or harvesting an actual and growing trees and cutting them down to use, this is just product that would otherwise be burned into the atmosphere, or go to waste in some way. So it's a really great circular model.
And this was one of the one of the products that you then took forward for a healthy material certification, right. And that is all right.
So we took we we have four and growing, I think we might add a couple more this year, all lefthand products within our line and within those several different colors and textures. The beauty of this process is it doesn't you're not really limited. So you can have all these different textures and colors and possibilities really a lot of a lot of really great possibilities. We took our end products and went for declare labels for those on the tanning and to live in leader product that is used for tanning these leathers is Cradle to Cradle gold and material health platinum. Which is also unheard of in the in the tanning industry. So that's it's just really, we feel this process will turn the tanning industry on its ear. There are a lot of great things happening with the typical way people tan leather and have for many years. But this is just kind of that next generation. You know, this is we're seeing into the future here for this product.
For those who are perhaps some familiar, you've dropped quite a few terms. I'm sorry, but I mean, those standards, I mean, the red list is is pretty much the gold standard. It is it's pretty demanding in terms of the chemicals that it does not want to see anywhere near your product, but then to also have or aligned with Cradle to Cradle, which is perhaps more of a sort of a circular economy approach to things would that be right?
Yeah. So if you think of, like the things I mentioned, a declare label is like a nutrition label for a product. So that will take into account that the chemicals used, as you mentioned, super strict. So to achieve a declare Red List free label is the highest standard out there right now. And we have that on all of those products. And then when you go to Cradle to Cradle, that's just what it says. So cradle the beginning of your product to the beginning of the next product instead of what used to be termed cradle to grave, which was the beginning of the product to the end of the product. In this case, there is no end so that that tanning product has the Cradle to Cradle award. Once you're finished tanning the leather and you have this leftover residue from the tanning product, you can literally you compost it, it can be used as fertilizer, for those same olive trees, you can call posted in your backyard compost, it is not harmful at all. So it's it's pretty exciting stuff. So that deals with kind of the end of life and material health, environmental health through the whole process, that kind of thing. And then the Platinum material health rating is actually a piece of the cradle to cradle. So you could just go for a material health rating, it could be used to kind of scale up to that Cradle to Cradle award. But it is one of the one of the five factors considered and cradle to cradle. So in the plant and the material health rating that's looking at the chemicals at that stage, so making sure that there's no chemicals involved that are considered hazardous or chemicals of concern
that are Is there anything that's less than and taking that approach may seem quite optimistic that it's real innovation within the industry? Is there anything that you're not able to do or that there's certain things that the more traditional craft based sort of the old way of doing things, only that you can only do that way or you you pretty much able to match it by doing this sort of fully eco approach.
You know, when mineral tanned or chromium tanned leathers came along and that's 80 to 90% of our leather in the world is tanned with, with chemicals, basically minerals. That opened up a huge world of accessibility to options from the vegetable tanned leathers before it. So oftentimes people use a combination of the two, just to have a different hand or you know, product at the end of the day. But vegetable Tam products were very limited. And that tanning process, you know, has its own concerns here or there. The nice thing about this, all of tande products that we have, this process is like the best of both worlds. And even better, really, because with edge 10, you're taking something from nature, versus You know what, what I mentioned before this, but this you can have softness, which you can't have with vegetable tanned leather, it's really more firm, like a shoe soul or something, or belt. You can also have color variation, texture variation, all these possibilities that you would have with the with the mineral tan leather, or the chromium tanned leather. Without the chemicals. So there aren't, we're not seeing a lot of, of issues, I think the main thing is jewel to things, you know, it's new. So every time a tannery will make a new product, it's, you know, about finessing it to get the right and results in that again, aesthetically, really. And then getting people on board to understand why it may be a little bit more expensive sometimes, because it's new. And it's small batch. If you think of the first small batch of brewery, you know, microbrews, or whatever, you know, that was, especially in the United States, you know, there was a handful now they're everywhere, you know. So it's, it's just a matter of gaining popularity and understanding. And I think that's probably the biggest challenge is that at the moment,
you do have these there's obviously some degree of scale. Is it purely on? What would be the factors that you identify them? Because you have for example, you supply to say automotive to Marine, which I presume is sort of high end stuff and aviation events like private jet? What are the what are the differences between say that and something that's going into, say, residential, commercial interior usage? How do you? How do you distinguish between those levels of quality or refinement?
Right, I think you know, in many cases, it's about the function that you're needing, especially when you when you break out some of those specific types of markets, the function that you're needing and then the preference. So for instance, in aviation, due to a lot of the requirements on the business aviation side of things, I mean, they, you know, beat up those, there's a lot of use, and they were looking for consistency, so patina, that you would get with a natural leather is probably out of the question. So you're needing something with a little more finished with some pigment in it, it's got to meet some strict testing typically for you know, abrasion or flame retardants or whatever. So there are certain types of products that that are better for that however, I have used on private aviation, as an individual's private aircraft all of the things that we've used in the residential market before again, it was their personal preference and what they were okay with so we can crossover with with any of these markets just fine. It's just really a matter of what is the function you're looking for? What is the look that you're looking for?
durability is an interesting word because it strikes me that leather is perhaps one of the products that rather like wine, ages well and with time almost it develops that path no develops more character in a way so how do you can contrast that with say, the arguments for what's loosely termed eco leather or vegan leathers which as I understand it, without having dug too deeply into it, they are not in fact leathers at all, is that right?
Correct. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you for hours about that, but I won't I promise. vegan leather is not possible. I this is maybe important taste but you cannot be pregnant and not pregnant at the same time. I kind of say the same thing. So in order to be a leather you have to be from an animal. So you can't be vegan and leather at the same time. Most the majority of the products that are out there that are you Using that terminology, it's such a shame, to me, it's just a marketing technique to make people feel like they're making this really great decision, you know, when in actuality they're choosing PVC or polyurethane products. So most, the majority of the products that are out there claiming to be vegan leather are fo products in the past called fo leather, we've also you can also refer to it as vinyl. These products are persistent in the environment, by using something like that it's not going away, you're creating this process, chemicals that are on the red lists that are chemicals of concern. So it's, it's just so not the better decision when it comes to environment and health. Also, what you get with a product like that is you have to replace it more often. So it's not going to wear it over time. So you know, to your point, with a leather lasting so long, and being this heirloom quality product, how often have you heard someone say, Man, I can't wait until I can inherit my grandmother's vinyl couch? Not many, not often do you say? Well, I want that that plastic chair, I can't wait to I have that handed down to me, that will likely never be handed down to you, it will be in a landfill somewhere forever and ever. You know. So as I said, I could speak to that for a long time. But leather lasted Outlast and out wears and it's just so beautiful for a longer period of time, so not only do you get a nice product in the beginning, but as you replace this other product, you're multiple times you're building up this landfill waste again, and causing more chemical processes to happen because you're you know, continue to buy it you continue to have it made all these other products while the leather still sits and the leather has not needed to be replaced. And it's just overall in the life cycle of the of the product. It's really important to look is it a circle or a line? That's the simple way I like to say to my clients, are you looking at a like a timeline? Like here's the beginning here's the end, then what happens at the end? Or are you looking at a circle can this thing be reused? Can it be used for a longer period of time and cutting down the waist.
And in terms of maintenance and and looking after one's leather I noticed that you recently bought out as an anti microbial spray that I guess is is a sort of reaction to or response to what's happening around COVID but in terms of what one could or should be doing to look after one's leather in let's call it in sort of home or or commercial environment in furniture to make sure that it is able to do that to make sure that it can live that nice long life and in the ages. Well Are there any tips? I mean, you guys are experts in this what do you normally recommend?
Sure it the number one thing you can do with your leather is best it just that's the main thing. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I need to dust my plants. But you're right it it will absorb and collect that dust after a period of time and that can kind of cause it to to dry out just like our skin. You know if we never loo foot or use a washcloth or did something in a shower to clean ourselves. Our own skin doesn't look that great after a while so just dusting you know people are we're seeing people get a lot better with patina and natural leathers which is great that's you know, you're speaking our language because we love the natural leathers and the way they patina and age and they become part of your story they become part of your character. You know, if you have a natural leather chair and you spill something on it, yes, you'll see it immediately and just don't just be call and take a deep breath because in a few days you know blot it up and that's great. But it will work its way through the fibers and it will will release its it will mellow and then what you have after that is either you won't even notice it was ever there or it becomes part of the patina but it's so much more mellowed out. I like to use this as an example. I have a client who was we were kind of talking about the same subject one day and maintenance and how people get all worked up over patina. Just live just live in your leather. And he said I have this chair and he has three kids. And he said and I was just my chair. He said you know you can see kind of a spot on the back where I sit from just the oils from his head. You You know, the arms were his hand said that, you know, over the years, he's had it for a long time. He said in one day, my kids were talking. And these are kids that are like college late high school age. And they were kind of fighting over who gets the chair. And he, he asked, Why in the world are you guys fighting over this chairs, just my chair. And the daughter said, Dad, when I see this chair, I see you. And I want this because I want you in my life, you know. And so it was a very touching moment during that unexpectedly during that presentation. But it really says so much about how leather is inherently part of us and can become part of our story. So when you do find that you need to clean a product, there are products that we carry that that you can use, typically a damp rag, mild, soapy water, something simple, it doesn't have to be anything else, that the Eco shield that we've brought on, you're right COVID threw us off for a loop last year. And what we saw was a reaction of like, bleach everywhere, people spraying harmful chemicals, and alcohol based solvent based products that not only are they not good for the leather or anything you're using it on, but they're also not good to be inhaling. I mean, we're all inhaling this stuff. So we took our time and tried to find a safe alternative, a safe product. So the way that eco shield works is it kills mechanically, not chemically, so there are no toxic chemicals within it. It's been deemed rewarded safe for food contact surfaces, it's been used in school districts, it's been used in airports, it's continued continues to work for up to 90 days. So you know, that antibacterial stuff we've been putting on our hands for the last year, like every five minutes, it only works when it's wet. And that's true of so many other things. So that's why I have to reapply it all the time. Because, okay, I touched this thing, let me put this stuff on, okay, that killed that now I go touch another thing, oh, guess what, I gotta use it again, this product, actually, you just apply it once. And then you just reapply it after about 90 days, because over time it will wear off, scratch off, you know, that sort of thing. But it doesn't, it keeps working at the same heightened level by just killing on contact any of these microbes. In fact, it draws it down. So if I were to put it, spray it lightly on my desk, it would draw down the microbes from the air and atmosphere, kill it on contact is pretty cool stuff.
Looking ahead, then to your your projects for for sustainability and education of the next year or two. What do you have in the pipeline? what's coming next?
Well, you know, we're looking at every aspect of what we do internally at our headquarters from and we've created a conservation team at the headquarters to get all of the departments involved and looking at what are we doing and how can we be doing it better. And so that's, that's kind of fun, we do have an onsite garden at our headquarters and we grow food, it's all employee driven. We grow grow food and supply, you know, not only the people within the office as they need it, but if people within the community are you know, in trouble and they need they need some little extra help we have we have that availability there. We're also looking at Malta several several different things with within our headquarters that I'm excited about. We're also always looking at reducing waste, we don't have a lot of waste at our headquarters, even when we cut samples and there's a little waste or trim or hide. We we sell that for pennies on the dollar to people who will make something from it. But we're you know, we're kind of looking at that process. And hopefully we'll have something maybe exciting to share before the end of the year, hopefully sooner rather than later. We also are working with all of our tanneries again to understand the certifications and awards and the measures that they're taking because there's a lot and there's they should be proud of them. It's pretty cool. So we're gathering that information. And I know that we are having like I said before a couple of new products made through the olive tanning process and also looking at what other you know, how can we continue to grow and push that envelope to lead the way within the tanning industry and also within our you know the building industry. History in general design architecture, how can we make decisions that will make a larger impact more quickly than just me having my little compost here at home? I mean, that's great, right? But if we can detect this on a larger scale, we could we could really create the difference that needs to happen.
Well, it's great stuff. I look forward to seeing developments over the next few years, no doubt. So to follow along, obviously, Oren giles.com will link in the show notes, in terms of putting out publications, people getting in touch, what's the best route in?
Well, I would say, if you're interested, you know, if you're interested in our bags, and accessories, by all means, go to mooreandgiles.com. If you're looking for more information about our leather hides, in general, as a designer, you can go there and go to the top of the screen and click leather for designers, or you can go to more and styles.com forward slash leather. And, you know, people are more than welcome to reach out to me just like you did, Matt and ask any questions you like, about leather in general or, you know, sustainability, what, what we're doing, what we're aware of, and then I can also put people in touch with the representative for their area if they're, if they're within the industry.
Good on you. Well, I mean, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure.