Embodied Carbon in sustainable Real Estate ESG

What is Embodied Carbon in Sustainable Real Estate Developments?

In the context of sustainable buildings and interiors, embodied carbon is essentially a question of materials.

Unlike ‘operational carbon’ or indeed ‘building energy efficiency’, embodied carbon accounts for the cumulative impact of building materials from extraction all the way through to construction; including transportation, manufacturing, and installation. 

The embodied carbon of a given material is therefore the amount of carbon emissions involved in first producing it and ultimately deploying it in a construction project.

Embodied carbon impacts from building and infrastructure projects have been estimated to account for 23% of global carbon emissions (McConnell, Mithun). 

In general terms, we can say that operational energy use has improved considerably as a result of sustainable green building principles, yet embodied carbon has lagged behind, remaining relatively constant over time despite the efforts of real estate sustainability consultants! 

Due to the negative impacts of embodied carbon, and its inherent relationship with sustainable material procurement policies, it is an area of particular interest for sustainable building and interior consultants, such as ourselves.

How to reduce embodied carbon in sustainable real estate development?

The bulk of the opportunities come in the early phases (pre-design and design) of a real estate development project as a small number of construction material choices will carry massive weight in the final embodied carbon status of the building. 

For this reason, project teams need to align behind sustainability objectives early on if they want to avoid playing catch-up.

Taking a step back further, developing a Sustainability Plan with objectives and priorities as early as possible, even doing so in broad principles for the development company as a whole in order to have an initial blueprint to apply as each new development deals comes online.

How to determine embodied carbon in building materials?

Completing Life Cycle Assessments (LCAs) is the main strategy to determine embodied carbon for materials or projects. Embodied carbon can be reduced by limiting material use, choosing low-carbon solutions, decreasing transportation related emissions, and reusing and recycling materials whenever possible.

Reduce Material Use in Sustainable Real Estate Development

An important strategy to reduce a real estate development project’s embodied carbon is to optimize and reduce overall material use. Sounds simple, perhaps deceptively so.

One major way to do this is to identify opportunities to use or repurpose existing buildings rather than demolishing or developing Greenfield sites. 

Real estate projects designed with adaptive reuse in mind effectively plan ahead for this eventuality, baking in flexibility for future owners or developers to facilitate the process of repurposing old buildings or structures. 

Demolition and construction is by comparison extremely carbon intensive, as it requires both material disposal and the extraction of new resources.

In addition, looking for efficiencies in the volume of certain structural materials used in a redevelopment or construction project will also diminish embodied carbon. 

For example, research has shown that on average, the quantity of structural steel used in buildings can be up to two times the necessary amount from an engineering perspective, greatly increasing embodied carbon (Isaac). 

Ensuring that material use is optimized and using stronger, more efficient materials will mean less volume overall.

In addition, the use of more efficient building strategies such as modular construction reduces waste and increases the sustainability of the project. 

Other sustainable design decisions such as reducing the need for / specification of finish materials in favor of simply leaving certain elements of the building structure exposed also decreases overall material use, lowering a project’s embodied carbon and helping it achieve its sustainability objectives whilst also adding an appealing aesthetic dimension. 

Summary - Material Optimization and Reduction Strategies

• Use and repurpose existing buildings

• Optimize structural framing by volume and materiality

• Reduce material volume through efficient design choices

• Implement modular construction methodologies

Using Low-Carbon Materials in Sustainable Real Estate Development

In any sustainable development project, it is likely that there will need to be some integration of new materials. Materials should therefore be selected based on the lowest feasible embodied carbon impact, commonly determined through the completion of LCAs. 

LCAs consider the amount of carbon (and often other emissions) required to take a material through its entire lifecycle—from extraction all the way through to disposal. These analyses are invaluable to compare a project’s material options and the associated embodied carbon. 

Whenever possible, select sustainable materials that have been manufactured using comparatively less energy or using renewable energy. Options with high recycled content, those that are bio-based and rapidly renewable will also help achieve sustainability targets, especially if they can also be reused at their end of life (McConnell, Greenbuild). 

Healthy building materials such as cross-laminated timber (CLT), bamboo, cork, hemp, straw, sheep wool, and even mycelium are bio-based, carbon-sequestering options that can greatly reduce a project’s embodied carbon as part of a real estate sustainability strategy for example (“Whole Building”).

In addition, when choosing materials, it is important to consider their durability, specifically when calculated alongside local climate and weather patterns. It is essential to understand how different materials react to heat or moisture, for example, to make smart choices that will stand the test of time and not need replacing within a few years. 

The more durable the material in the specific climatic conditions of the project location the less materials will be needed in future for upkeep and replacement, therefore reducing the risk of provoking additional resource extraction later on (“Whole Building”).

Sustainable interiors and embodied carbon

Most embodied carbon reduction efforts have been focused on significant structural elements such as concrete or steel, which require energy intensive processes and are often used in large quantities. 

However, as substitutes such as CLT become more accessible, consideration for the embodied carbon of a sustainable interior also becomes more relevant. 

Common interior finish materials such as acoustic ceilings, gypsum wall boards, and nylon carpeting can have a considerable impact on a project’s embodied carbon if not assessed from a sustainability perspective as early on as possible in order to account for any budgetary adjustments they might require (McConnell, Mithun). 

Summary: Low-carbon sustainable building and interiors material strategies

• Reduce fossil fuel energy required for extraction and manufacturing

• Choose those that contain high recycled content

• Bio-based and carbon sequestering resources

• Prioritize rapidly renewable materials

• Consider climate-specific durability of materials

Reducing Transportation Emissions in Sustainable Buildings and Interiors

When considering a material’s embodied carbon and its life cycle, transportation emissions can also have a considerable impact meaning we need to look into material supply chains, aim to source locally or regionally, carefully plan construction material deliveries to limit wastage, and choose low-emission transport options whenever possible. 

Local sustainable materials 

Select materials that are produced from a low carbon system, both through their manufacturing and transportation. The use of local, sustainable materials will greatly reduce transportation distances and emissions, so it is important to understand what is available within an acceptable radius of your project (“Whole Building”).

Sustainable Transportation of materials

In addition, by reducing the number of site deliveries through close coordination of  manufacturing and construction timelines we avoid the delivery of materials at inefficient times that in turn can cause damage and unnecessary waste. 

Efficient alignment of transportation with project timelines in this way is an essential step to reduce the embodied carbon of a building project (Best Practice).

Finally, whenever possible choose transport options that create the lowest carbon emissions, such as train or barge, when available (“Whole Building”).

Low-Carbon Sustainable Building Transportation Strategies

• Choose materials with a low-carbon supply chain

• Source locally

• Coordinate transport with project timelines

• Utilize low-carbon transportation options

Reuse & Recycle Materials

The implementation of salvaged, reused, and recycled materials greatly reduces embodied carbon as it eliminates the need to extract and manufacture new resources. Salvaged materials only involve emissions related to transportation and refabrication, greatly cutting a sustainable building’s overall embodied carbon (“Salvaged Materials”). 

Hand-in-hand with the use of salvaged materials comes deconstruction, the process of carefully disassembling a building to save its materials rather than the more common demolition strategy. Examples of easily salvageable materials include brick and wood, as well as steel and precast concrete (“Salvaged Materials”).

If materials cannot be salvaged, choose options that contain high recycled content. Paper, plastic, and glass products are increasingly common in building materials and provide greener options for projects aiming to lower their embodied carbon. 

Sustainable Building Material Reuse Strategies

• Salvage materials from previous builds

• Implement deconstruction

• Utilize materials with high recycled content

Helpful Embodied Carbon Tools 

With all of these strategies, it is imperative to first set project carbon goals. As with all sustainable building projects, the use of benchmarking is essential to determine what has been done before and what is plausible for any given project. Within each development, stakeholders involved in the design and construction process will benefit of how their role can positive (or negatively) impact the embodied carbon of the project (“Whole Building”). 

Early on in the design process, various tools can be used by team members to determine the potential carbon outputs. For example, the programs Revit and Tally can work together to store information about material quantities and qualities to pre-form LCAs and determine the carbon impacts of building materials. Tally currently contains more structural, heavy material data but is moving towards containing more interior material information such as for furniture and casework. 

When considering which materials to utilize, look for those with Environmental Product Declarations (EPDs) - effectively a way of communicating information on a material’s environmental impact. This information can be found online in places such as the EPD library. In addition, the Carbon Smart Materials Palette provides information on high and low impact materials over their life cycles. 

Finally, there are several free carbon calculators that can be used to compare material options. EC3 is one of the most common in the industry, allowing users to compare construction materials and review material EPDs.

Pathfinder meanwhile is a carbon calculator that focuses more on landscaping elements, even including estimates for natural features such as trees and greenery.  

How to Reach Embodied Carbon Goals for a sustainable building

• Set embodied carbon goals early on in the design timeline

• Ensure collaboration across project team, aligned behind sustainable building interior strategies

• Incorporate design and LCA tools (Revit and Tally) to track data on embodied carbon in materials

• Use online resources or consultants to identify low-carbon material solutions

• Use online carbon calculators for complete transparency

Sources

“ Best Practice Guide to Improving Waste Management on Construction Sites.” Resource Efficient Scotland, Scotland. 

Isaac, Philip, and Jonny Hawkshaw. Elsevier, 2020, Scaling Low-Carbon Construction Materials, thestructuralengineer.org. Accessed 5 May 2022. 

McConnell, Claire, et al. “A Year of Embodied Carbon.” Mithun, 5 Nov. 2021, https://mithun.com/2021/11/05/a-year-of-embodied-carbon/  

McConnell, Claire. “Greenbuild.” Greenbuild, Greenbuild International Conference & Expo, 22 Sept. 2021, https://informaconnect.com/greenbuild/agenda-2021/ Accessed 5 May 2022. 

“Salvaged Materials.” SE2050, SE 2050, https://se2050.org/resources-overview/strategies/salvaged-materials/  

“Whole Building Approaches to Emissions Reductions.” Carbon Smart Materials Palette, Architecture 2030 - Enfold WordPress , https://materialspalette.org/whole-building/

Waste Management in Green & Healthy Buildings & Interiors

Waste Management 

Around half of the world’s raw materials go into construction, and a third of the world’s waste is produced through the industry (Miller), making waste reduction and waste management a crucial contributor to reducing landfill and keeping materials in use (ref: the circular economy).

Due to the sheer scale of this impact, strategies of material use reduction, reuse, and recycling are key in all phases of a building project, from the design and pre-construction phase, into construction, in-use and operations phases, as well as the end-of-life phase.

In addition, considering the entire life cycle of raw material extraction, production, and waste is key for an Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) real estate strategy. 

The main goals in order of importance for each of these phases would first be to reduce the total amount of waste produced, then to reuse materials that would otherwise be considered waste, and finally to implement waste disposal management through strategies such as recycling, when necessary.

Various strategies can be implemented to reach these goals depending on the building’s phase of life. 

Design & Pre-construction Phase

The design phase is often overlooked when considering waste management, although it has great potential to affect the production of waste throughout the life cycle of the building.

The way a building is designed is the most important factor for how it will function and change in the future. Designing for adaptability, efficient material use, and including recycling opportunities are all key strategies that have the potential to reduce waste production further along the life cycle. 

When considering the life cycle of a building, one way to extend its useful life is to design for adaptability. This means that if the use of the building changes, the structure can be more easily shifted towards another use, therefore avoiding the demolition and reconstruction process, and reducing opportunities for waste production.

For example, a London construction for the 2012 Olympics was designed so that after the games, the used buildings were redesigned for affordable local homes, greatly reducing waste production (Miller). 

In addition, the amount and type of materials used should be considered in the design phase to avoid excess waste created at end of life. Attention to different construction possibilities and the recyclability of materials have the potential to reduce initial material use and increase opportunities for reuse.

This therefore reduces waste production throughout the life cycle of the building. Essentially, the design phase should be used for planning and accounting for all waste-producing activities throughout the building’s life cycle and include management strategies to reduce this waste. 

Construction Phase

In conjunction with the design phase, the construction phase has the potential to reduce large amounts of waste if properly managed. Construction projects should always aim to reduce waste production, and when that is not possible, find was to reuse materials on site and recycle any materials that cannot be used.

A site waste management plan should be employed to monitor all construction activities and optimize waste reductions and reuse opportunities (Best Practice).

Firstly, construction that occurs off-site such as modular construction can be employed, which removes a lot of potential waste problems. In a more controlled environment, modular construction allows for better management of waste, decreases material use, and increases disposal and recycling opportunities.

Off-site construction in general provides greater control, and avoidance of onsite disorganization or weather issues that can lead to material damage. 

On any construction site, the delivery of materials at improper times can cause excess waste. To reduce material deliveries and damages, it is beneficial to bring materials on site ‘just-in-time’ to better align with construction project stages.

This strategy avoids excess materials and opportunities for material damage, which will create unusable materials and therefore create additional waste. Planning the timing of material deliveries and spaces to store materials when not in use is very important in the construction phase of a building (Best Practice).

In addition, when on the construction site it is important to designate areas where waste should be collected when produced and to consider where to place recycling bins or other waste containers on site to make them easily accessible for workers so that waste is properly collected and sorted.

Towards the end of the construction phase, as green building consultants we aim to ensure the proper segregation of materials and designate those that can be reused or recycled in other projects. In addition, to ensure optimized waste management, the training of workers and staff on the construction site is essential. (Best Practice).

In Use / Operations Phase

The in-use phase of the building is an equally important phase for monitoring and reducing waste production. After encouraging building occupants and those operating within a space to reduce waste sent to the landfill, it is essential that there is ample space to provide the segregation and storage of waste when it is accumulated within the building.

Equally, we advise the tracking of waste produced within the building and compare it to benchmarks to ensure that appropriate amounts are diverted from landfills.

To encourage building occupants to produce less waste, strategies such as using signage and providing products that create minimal to no waste are beneficial. Clear signage that encourages the segregation of waste in bins will encourage occupants to participate in recycling practices.

If, for example, the building contains a cafeteria or dining space, food and drink should be made available with minimal or recyclable materials, to reduce waste after use. 

Storage for recycling should be easily accessible to building occupants and include options for paper, glass, plastics, and metals. In addition, composting opportunities should be provided as well as disposal locations for waste such as batteries and other electronics (LEED).

These locations should be easily visible and clearly marked to encourage building occupant use. Once collected on site, it is essential that there are processes in place that bring the segregated waste off site to facilities if not available on site (BREEAM). 

In the design phase, it is important to consider the potential volume of waste produced within the building based on project type and traffic.

The number of bins available should equate to predicted daily and weekly waste production amounts. In the use phase, it is important to monitor and report the amount of waste produced regularly, to ensure the appropriate amount of storage and collection containers (BREEAM).

Also, with waste production and benchmarking information, decisions about the amount of management needed for collecting, storing, and transporting waste off-site can be clarified.

Overall, the goal of waste management in the use phase of a building is to divert as much waste as possible from the landfill.

This is first done through the encouragement of behavioral change to reduce waste production from the occupant side, and then provide locations to sort and recycle waste when produced. When the waste is collected and stored by trained staff, it should be measured to optimize building waste organization and to analyze for further reduction opportunities. 

End of Life Phase

Closely connected to the design and construction phases of the building, the end-of-life phase has the potential to greatly reduce the amount of waste produced from the construction industry. If the building was constructed with adaptability in the design phase, then at end of life, the demolition process is not completely necessary. Also, what is taken apart at end of life should be recycled, reused, or salvaged for another use whenever possible to reduce waste in landfills.

Ideally, the life of the building is extended as much as possible and there is not a need to demolish a structure once it's built. When possible, the building should be refurbished for an alternative use or extended horizontally or vertically if needed, to avoid the need of starting over (BREEAM). If the building can be renovated instead of torn down, the waste produced is immensely reduced.

When demolition is the outcome, salvaging and recycling any material possible is essential to optimize waste reduction. Ideally a closed loop recycling process is utilized, meaning that materials used within the building can be recycled and remanufactured into the same or similar product for another building or project.

In some cases, materials can even be reused on site for a new application in the new construction when applicable. Finally, there are options to return materials to the original supplier to recycle, reuse, and recover the materials.

In the demolition process a term known as deconstruction can be utilized to further salvage materials from the building site and significantly reduce waste production.

Deconstruction involves the process of carefully dismantling a building rather than demolishing it without care, which greatly increases the potential for material reuse and reduces waste from landfills (Sustainable).

Management / ESG Compilation Phase

From an ESG perspective, waste management and reduction are an essential part of a building’s useful life. When considering the whole life cycle of a building, there are numerous opportunities to create large impacts on waste reductions, and therefore the environmental impacts of a project.

It is essential to consider waste in every phase of a project and include plans and management goals from the initiation of a build.

From the environmental side of the real estate ESG strategy, aka the “E” part of ESG, waste cannot be overlooked. Ideally a building or project contributes to the concept of a circular economy through the lens of waste.

Although a fully closed loop is difficult to achieve with any man-made building or system, considering ways to close the material loop and therefore eliminate waste is a key mindset. 

The reduction of raw material extraction and waste production through strategies such as thoughtful design, smart construction strategies, proper management of waste in the in-use phase, as well as reducing waste at the end of a building’s life are essential.

A project’s waste management plan and ESG strategy go hand in hand – both essential to reducing the environmental impact of the built environment, a duty of those of us operating within the building industry. 

Effective waste management is crucial in the construction industry. Around half of the world’s raw materials go into construction projects, and the industry produces a third of the world’s waste (Miller). This highlights the importance of waste reduction and management in minimizing landfill use and maintaining material circulation within the circular economy. Inefficient waste management can have significant financial and environmental implications.

The Role of Construction Companies

Construction companies play a vital role in waste management by:

• Engaging resource management companies

• Obtaining quotations for construction waste

• Collaborating with waste management stakeholders to promote sustainable waste disposal practices

On-Site Waste Management

Proper construction waste management on construction sites involves:

• Designating areas for waste collection and recycling

• Implementing strategies for reducing, reusing, and recycling materials

• Minimizing hazardous waste generation

Lifecycle Waste Management Strategies

Strategies for material use reduction, reuse, and recycling are key in all phases of a building project:

1. Design and Pre-Construction Phase

2. Construction Phase

3. In-Use and Operations Phase

4. End-of-Life Phase

Implementing these strategies effectively helps significantly reduce waste throughout the lifecycle of a building.

Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Considerations

Considering the entire lifecycle of raw material extraction, production, and waste is essential for an ESG real estate strategy. Managing organic waste is also crucial as it impacts green building concepts and helps mitigate environmental issues like methane generation.

Waste Management Goals and Priorities

The main goals in order of importance for each phase of a building’s lifecycle are:

1. Reduce the total amount of waste produced

2. Reuse materials that would otherwise be considered waste

3. Recycle materials when necessary

Sustainable Building Practices

Various strategies can be implemented depending on the building’s phase of life. Emphasizing resource efficiency and the use of sustainable materials in green building projects is critical. Sustainable building practices ensure environmentally responsible and resource-efficient processes throughout the building’s lifecycle.

Importance of Reducing Energy Consumption

Reducing energy consumption is also a vital part of holistic and sustainable waste management practices. This includes using energy-efficient processes and materials to minimize the environmental impact of construction projects.

Modular Construction and Material Reuse

Adopting modular construction can significantly reduce waste and improve efficiency. This approach, along with reusing materials, supports sustainable building practices and reduces the negative impacts of traditional construction methods.

Effective waste management in the construction industry is essential for promoting sustainability and reducing environmental impact. By implementing strategies for waste reduction, reuse, and recycling, construction companies can contribute to healthier interior designs and greener building practices.

Sources

“ Best Practice Guide to Improving Waste Management on Construction Sites.” Resource Efficient Scotland, Scotland. 

Miller, Norman. “The Industry Creating a Third of the World's Waste.” BBC Future, BBC, https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211215-the-buildings-made-from-rubbish. 

“Sustainable Management of Construction and Demolition Materials.” EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, https://www.epa.gov/smm/sustainable-management-construction-and-demolition-materials. 

BREEAM Certification System

LEED Certification System

a guide to real estate ESG management software

Real estate Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) reporting is becoming the norm for real estate developers and funds as societal pressure combines with investor pressure from above to nudge the industry towards a Triple Bottom Line position.

As real estate ESG consultants annual reporting is an obligatory piece of the puzzle, although it should be seen as a way to summarize and review the work done, rather than it becoming the focus of the work - a subtle but important difference!

Much of ESG is now about producing quality data and management of that data is fundamental, no longer can a spreadsheet do this job for us effectively, especially not for real estate portfolios with multiple, fully operational buildings. By setting up the necessary software early on in the ESG journey, a real estate developer sets themselves up for success in properly capturing, managing, and eventually disclosing ESG data.

ESG software helps us to track, visualize and monitor progress in real time throughout the year and then to transparently communicate to customers and investors the sustainability work delivered at the end of the year too. This process of collecting and analyzing data on an ongoing basis ensures alignment with the appropriate policies and ESG frameworks.

Depending on a real estate developer’s specific requirements, it can be difficult to find one single piece of ESG software that does everything we need, so here is a review of the major players right now.

Greenstone - ESG

Greenstone is a sustainability reporting software that enables organizations to more easily manage their ESG data and ESG reports. It’s primarily about data collection and data management, allowing the ESG team or external ESG Consultants to focus more on reporting, analysis and decision-making. Greenstone’s software and support services include modules concerning the environment, frameworks, and health and safety.

The Greenstone Environment module helps process environmental data, track consumption and carbon emissions, and manage and communicate this data.

The Greenstone Frameworks module ensures that clients meet the requirements of various reporting frameworks such as CDP, SASB, GRI Standards, TCFD, UNGC, and the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals.

The Greenstone Health and Safety module helps organizations to collect and analyze  incident data and manage reporting (Greenstone). 

https://www.greenstoneplus.com/

Sustain.Life – Environment

Sustain.Life focuses specifically on ways to track, reduce, and manage carbon emissions and footprint. Additionally, the platform aligns this process with current certifications and standards to prepare for third-party assessments. The software aims to simplify the collection and management of data in one place, facilitating collaboration in the process.

Sustain.Life first aids in the measurement of greenhouse gas emissions, then provides step-by-step guides for emission reduction strategies, and finally provides ways to offset unavoidable emissions. The carbon footprint is calculated through Sustain.Life’s carbon calculator using scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions, meaning it considers all levels of a business’s emission behaviors.

Once the footprint is calculated, the software provides a sustainability plan based on the organizations budget, time, and climate impact. Finally, there are offset opportunities provided on the platform, allowing users to offset emissions from building users on an automatic monthly basis (“Sustainability”). 

https://www.sustain.life/

Brightest - Social 

Brightest, another big player in ESG, Social Impact and Sustainability software, aims to increase efficiency in collecting, managing, and reporting data. Its particular USP however is around the social impact component, at least for now.

Brightest helps organizations collect data on environmental accounting assets, supply chain, energy and resources, and employees, teams and departments through stakeholder surveys, utility and invoice analyses, and life cycle analyses.

Once collected, data can be transferred to the Brightest ESG and sustainability dashboard. There, emission targets are tracked, carbon accounting is regulated, social impact and community characteristics are noted, and action plans are recommended based on the available data. As data accumulates the software can then start to aid further with reporting and disclosure.

https://www.brightest.io/

Workiva - Governance

Workiva’s platform enables a simpler ESG reporting process through data management, the provision of reporting templates, and a single location for policy management. This software helps answer the ESG reporting questions of: who needs to be involved, what data should be included, and how can it be consolidated efficiently?

Workiva provides a platform to store data, create custom data sets and calculations, and format that data for reporting. Much of this process is automated. In addition, the platform allows for easier collaboration through simplified task management and progress tracking.

A master index of policies makes it easy to track and manage content for policies, standards, and other ESG guidelines. This allows ESG teams to keep all relevant ESG policies and documents in a single location.

https://www.workiva.com/solutions/esg-reporting

Measurabl – Real Estate ESG

Measurabl is arguably the most widely recognized ESG data management software in commercial real estate right now. The tool was designed specifically for real estate and is entirely data driven. It automates and consolidates much of the ESG processes, including ways to set targets, track performance, use benchmarks, and create reports. 

This platform helps measure data such as electricity, water, fuel, and waste usage as well as tracking sustainability targets. In addition, it helps users manage social and governance documents, and keep track of green building certifications and annual reporting frameworks.

https://www.measurabl.com/

Sources

Brightest. “Simplify Social Impact, Sustainability and ESG.” Brightest, https://www.brightest.io/  

“ESG Reporting.” Workiva, https://www.workiva.com/solutions/esg-reporting  

Greenstone. “Sustainability, Supply Chain and ESG Software Solutions.” Greenstone, https://www.greenstoneplus.com/

“Real Estate ESG.” Measurabl, 12 Apr. 2022, https://www.measurabl.com/

“Sustainability Management Software.” Sustain.Life – Sustainability Management Software, https://www.sustain.life/  

https://gresb.com/nl-en/

Smart buildings for improved air quality, energy saving, carbon capture - Sally R

air quality / smart buildings / healthy buildings / energy efficiency / green building / hvac / indoor farming

Welcome to episode 45 of the Green & Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate today.

In this episode I’m in Sweden talking to Fredrik Tunberg, CEO of Sally R, a cloud-based intelligent ventilation solution that uses algorithms to optimize indoor air quality while reducing overall energy consumption related to the HVAC system.

We discuss how buildings have traditionally had to make guesstimates about how much ventilation they will need, and then applies a blanket approach throughout the day, throughout the building, whereas the latest technology, sensors and IOT enabled software completely changes the game, opening up opportunities for far more tailored, efficient and cost effective solutions. Which is essentially what Sally R do.

As Fredrik points out, high quality indoor air does not need to cost more, quite the opposite in fact, once you can see the air in a building and map that against usage data, and feedback from a network of air quality monitors, it’s a complete game changer that also saves on energy use in the process.

Finally, they are also getting into Carbon capture in indoor farms, but I’ll Fredrik explain that part. 

• Sally R website

• Sally R indoor farming

• Sally R on LinkedIn

Talking indoor air quality in healthy buildings and energy efficient green buildings with Fredrik Tunberg of SALLY R

Let's start with the basics. So, when you're describing SALLY R, what's the problem that you're solving here around HVAC and mechanical ventilation system optimization in healthy buildings?

Fredrik Tunberg

As part of the increasing energy prices, of course, across Europe across the world, as well as the pandemic, that we're hopefully seeing the end of. I believe that real estate and especially commercial real estate and public buildings starting to open up will create some very important questions for the real estate owners, as well as sales managers, and how to tackle these two issues - energy efficiency and indoor air quality. That's where Sally R can really make a difference.

Matt Morley

So there's two pieces that you mentioned, effectively, the building energy cost, the energy implications of running a mechanical ventilation system in a building, and also how that mechanical ventilation system relates to airborne diseases, such as COVID. So let's look at the first one. So the energy costs I get, how do you how to get involved or integrate into that, start measuring it and make improvements?

Indoor air quality and energy efficiency

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, and in our case, those two different pieces are very intertwined into each other. So overall, we're trying to really prove to people that well, an increase, and more secure indoor air quality, actually doesn't mean that you have to spend that the consumer energy is rather the opposite. 

“It’s a contradiction that clean air costs more, it’s actually the other way around. So an optimized indoor air quality in a healthy building will actually provide you with substantial green building energy savings. ”

— fredrik tunberg

smart buildings and hvac systems

“You have to bear in mind that the traditional way of controlling HVAC has been the same for many years. With the help of technology breakthroughs, such as big data, connectivity, and wireless sensors, we can manage that data to control very complex systems within buildings. ”

— fredrik tunberg, ceo , sally r

Matt Morley

So for someone who's perhaps not familiar with traditional building management systems, or facilities management, you said it's a bit of a dinosaur, and it hasn't really upgraded. So what does that look like for someone who's not familiar with it, obviously, you know, natural ventilation is where we came from. And then at some point, we started creating pressurized, mechanically ventilated buildings with HVAC air conditioning systems. And over the last, say, 20 years or so, or more, how has that? What's that look like?

building management systems in healthy buildings

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, this is different, depending on what kind of building you're talking about. And obviously, also what kind of country you're in, from our experience from, from Sweden, Scandinavia, and Europe, is that evolved buildings, once they were built, they were are the someone from the BMS system provider or their partners, they were in the building and programming a unique solution for that building. And that was obviously based on a lot of assumptions. And these assumptions goes hand in hand with what like the building would be intended, intended views, and all different kinds of things.

So one practical example would be one, one building that we implemented our solution and very recently, where they 2025 years ago, when the when the building was built, the HR system was programmed. And it was programmed based on the assumption like, Alright, let's do 40% return here. And it was just an assumption that that would work out and that that was a good level. It is not based on any kind of facts and figures, because and to be honest, like 25 years ago, you couldn't do that. And what we can do now is that we can, we can allow the building to choose his own level of returner, depending on how it is being used. What is happening on the outside of the building, and, and taking into a lot of different factors concerning the indoor air quality into account in order to calculate optimal performance for the system.

Matt Morley

So then that links in with the idea of the big data, right? Because you're then using global benchmarks to understand how it should be done comparing that with what's actually happening and trying to find gaps discrepancies between the two and then making the adjustments to how the air ventilation system is operating. Is that right? Yeah,

energy efficiency in a smart building

Fredrik Tunberg

Absolutely, absolutely. So that's one way to look at it. And then there's other other types of buildings like we're optimizing a large shopping mall in Stockholm, it's the largest one is going to need for more mall of Scandinavia. So it's, it has a good name. And that building was built in a was I believe it was finished, like in 2015, or 2016. So it's very, it's very new, it was a huge investment, obviously, for the real estate company. And so it's very sophisticated, everything that is within the building. And still, we managed to save around 40-42% of the energy being used with HVAC system, simply because we were more reactive to whatever was going on. And this was especially so during the pandemic, of course, when the building had a lot lower people occupants passing through. And again, was based on assumptions on how how it would be used the building. And, yeah, so there's a lot to be done.

automated hvac in a smart building

Matt Morley

So if I can create an analogy, would it be basically like someone going in to a building, turning on all the lights at a certain point on the dinner and saying, Well, that's it. That's how we operate the light system between nine o'clock and five o'clock? And you're saying, well, actually, you might need certain different intensities during the day. And you might need perhaps a little bit on a on a weekend, or you might need some later in the evening? Because that's actually how the building's being used. Would that be a fair analogy to draw, you're trying to connect the the usage by the occupants in the building with the amount of air ventilation and circulation that they need is that, yeah, absolutely

Fredrik Tunberg

That's definitely a huge part of it. And then we also have different ways of like, analyzing the building, as well. So we are measuring and we're constantly calculating the loads within the building and not not just the heating load, but are also like the load concerning co2, we can calculate any kind of boat, we can calculate and monitor VOC load process. And by doing it that way, we can predict what will happen a lot better than then what would normally be the case, as well. So there's a lot of different things, but those definitely a good analogy as well.

Matt Morley

“VOCs, volatile organic compounds, basically, the nasty chemicals that are off gassing from things like adhesives, glues, carpets, furniture in an office. ”

— matt morley

So for the listeners who perhaps aren't aware that toxic chemicals can be found in office furniture, the reality is they often can, especially in fabrics, textiles, foams, paints, and cheap ceiling panels and what have you. So the importance of what you've just described, is, is really, I think, critical for for improved indoor air quality.

So if we look at the hardware and the software involved in making that happen, like what's, what's going on in terms of bringing pieces of kit into the building? Or is it a completely software based solution? Like how do you integrate into the building management system into the BMS?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, there's, different ways to do that, of course, and we do a lot of different types of integration and implementations. But Sally R is in essence a software company. So we don't have our own hardware concerning this particular service. Rather, we would prefer to collaborate with with a partner and primarily, that would be the BMS company and the BMS provider, but it can also obviously be an IOT platform, for instance, or it can be a sensor, sensor company, providing sensors.

But we have also done integrations and implementations where we made use of a kind of a simple kind of each unit each gateway, but that is simply just because we want to cut corners. And this is primarily we do that primarily for older systems, older buildings, where they sometimes they don't even have an internet. It's not connected to the internet.

Matt Morley

So it strikes me as an example of smart building systems, right, but we're trying to connect the bill Seeing via your software with the daily realities of what's happening inside the building. So it's reactive rather than being passive. Do you? Do you just make a distinction between the air purification that's going on in the building and the air quality?

So like, is the software looking at purification rates that are happening? Do we need to consider that there's not enough purification beyond just the ventilation rates in the building, do you normally recommend that there is a complimentary strategy in terms of improving the indoor air quality beyond just ventilation or is that typically enough to remove the VOCs? Remove the co2?

indoor air quality and sally r software

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, and obviously, definitely depends on where in the world you are, and what kind of room but we will obviously like we, we see a lot of data we can see. And we can analyze that for the customer. But then it's obviously up to the customer to take actions based on that data. But it's not that uncommon, obviously, that we get questions like how do we how can we improve this further?

How, what measures do we need to take it apart from the software, and stuff like that, and then we like to be really, really frank about, we're not a consultancy in that way, there are others who are way much better than than us that providing advice on that. But any way we can to help is, obviously a bit.

“we are not actually in this to to save energy, it might sound strange, but our standpoint is we want to secure indoor air quality, the energy saving is an extra benefit!”

— Fredrik Tunberg, CEO, SaLLY R

Matt Morley

So then you'd imagine there being say, a network of head height air quality monitors throughout the building that there's the building management team are getting one source of data coming in, you then got what Sally are producing in terms of data, and you can start to see how the management team is building up a picture, right? of exactly what's what's going on. So how does that how does that take place?

For someone who's not familiar with that process? Yeah, so like you said that there, you're creating the data. And you're is it is the is the software making decisions on behalf of the building management team or the building management team having to take to sort of interpret the data that you're creating, and then manually create, implement changes, or is it automatically linked, now is

Fredrik Tunberg

“Our software automates improvements in indoor air quality 100% based on whatever parameters, you as the building owner, or manager, want to achieve in the building in terms of indoor air quality.”

— fredrik tunberg, ceo , sally r

And usually, there is a minimum value and a maximum value, and never to exceed the maximum value of course. And then the system the software would optimize within that can range and it will do that automatically. But it would also obviously pick up on any like discrepancies in in that performance as well. And for instance, we can easily analyze a abnormal high energy consumption within any kind of like fans or anything like that, that we can track back to, for instance, that filter change being needed.

So we can optimize that and we can we can optimize for other types of filters as well. So you can introduce more filtration, for instance, concerning knowledge, but then who are starting to talk more and more about TM one for instance. So we can we can definitely there's definitely room to improve more on the filtration side with an optimization.

Particulate Matter in indoor air quality

Matt Morley

So PM1 - we typically talk about PM10, which would be dust level particles, then PM 2.5, which is much smaller. Things like mold, VOCs and tiny little things, but PM1 would be airborne disease level?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, exactly. I mean, noncredit to me, according to the WHO.

indoor farms and carbon capture

Matt Morley

Yeah. Okay. And and so you then have this other piece, right, you have this other element, which I think is a really interesting complement to, to what we've just been talking about around the the HVAC Building Management and this carbon capture and indoor farms. So where did that come from? What's that product about?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, absolutely. So we will need to go back five or six years basically, because Sally R - our name to begin with is a tribute to Sally Right, the first female astronaut, US astronaut. So we basically turned to space in the beginning to find solutions to how our buildings can rely less on the outside air. Because we see problems with the outside air becoming more and more polluted. And a lot of energy consumption comes from the process of changing outside air into heated or cooled indoor air.

So when starting to look at ISS, and how they're solving the indoor air quality on the space station, we came across some some very like crucial, crucial things that need to solve. And one of them obviously, being the optimization of the whole service. And that's, that's our software today. Another part of it is being able to capture co2 from an HR system or from an indoor environment. So for the last three or four years, we've basically been digging into that and evaluating different technologies out there, and then coming up with our own technology in order to capture carbon efficiently from indoor environments. And then, obviously, like looking looking for for different solutions in how to offset that carbon.

But once you want to calculate what what would you do with the co2. And we saw this, this kind of new industry, it's not new, but it's, it's definitely on most people's radar these times. And it's concerning vertical farming and locally grown verbs that urban farming and container farming, there's a lot of buzz going on there. And one crucial part of sustainable indoor farming is being able to enrich the farming area with co2. And the the only solution that we've seen so far is to bring in like shoo, some tanks with co2 that quite often comes from natural gas. And that's not very sustainable. So we see a possibility here to kind of make one industry more sustainable by giving them the co2 and one industry, the real estate industry, both safe, safer and more energy efficient by capturing. So yeah, that was a long explanation, a monologue.

Matt Morley

So if that was say, just to understand, because I know some images on your website, they depict maybe like a rooftop indoor farm that could be on a could be on a an office building, for example, where they decided to go into that with a kind of, like a Yeah, a bubble, right? So you create this this glass house area where it's a protected environment? Would it have to work would only work in those that context? Or could it be, say, a vertical farm set up in the reception of a big building, for example? Or do you need an enclosed space? How is it? What are the applications? Like what do you need from your side?

Fredrik Tunberg

Well, we need an enclosed space in some way, in order to really have an effect on the co2 levels. So the so that you actually get an increase in yield on the crops. So they grow more and more co2 have a certain extent, of course. So that that is what you need. But we're also looking into different applications preferring more like traditional indoor farming, like traditional greenhouses, and particular than commercial greenhouses. And then we would actually capture the carbon from from ambient air instead, that would be more like direct air capture for it for a specific purpose. That's another another kind of application.

Circular Economy and green healthy buildings

Matt Morley

So you sort of have this circular economy concept, right? Where you're, we're trying to keep everything in the loop rather than and in this case, the co2 is kind of like the waste product that we want to keep in the loop to reuse to get more value from it.

Fredrik Tunberg

Absolutely. That is what we really want to achieve and we also want to kind of like waste from the general awareness but you can actually do this if faced with co2, and co2 is natural, it's in our air, he says that we have a bit too much of it these days. So we need to like we need to make something useful with it. And why not actually do or try to increase the production of healthy food, and especially locally grown healthy food? Because there's loads and loads of benefits with vertical farming, indoor farming, and being really, we can help one.

Matt Morley

So where do you go from here? In terms of building the business? bringing in new clients developing new products and services? Like how do you see this evolving over the next three to five years?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, no, it's very exciting time here - the plan for this year is internationalization where we are at scaling up business as we're getting to new markets. obviously started out in Sweden and Scandinavia, but we're looking to expand into UK and further into Canada as well this year, concerning the carbon capture where we are now way more like a pre mature stage, but we're commercializing right now. We're getting our first first couple of clients, and we will continue to evaluate the performance on that technology. And so yeah, it will be a little bit divided. But we're, we'll have different places that we have our hands full.

Healthy buildings integrating Sally R software

Matt Morley

So let's take a potential building in central London. And there are certain parameters within which you can work or are there certain requirements in terms of going in? Does it need to be a certain genre or type of building or something that's built after a certain year in terms of its HVAC? Like, are there? Are there areas where you can't help? Are there areas where you can have more impact and more more positive results?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, essentially, we don't, our software works for any kind of building anywhere. Basically, as long as you have mechanical ventilation, we can optimize that. But it's more of a matter of where we put our focus, as of today. So we focused deliberately on offices and retail primarily, but also on on more sensitive buildings, like schools and hospitals, elevate the health health sector. But we make the most difference in obviously, large buildings, obviously, less complex buildings. So open spaces, versus open spaces. And we can really make a difference where you have a lot of people coming in and changing the the occupancy, because then we can be casting a huge difference on the interview.

What is the cost of healthy building software?

Matt Morley

So it's a question that I'm nearly always asked when I'm proposing these kind of concepts and services to clients that I work with. So I'll map Okay, but what are the cost implications? And how much more is this gonna cost me? And often, my responses will look, there might be a little bit more upfront in terms of your capex, but then how long will it take you to pay that off in terms of operating costs once you open the building, and actually, it can often be within a space of two to three years.

But then the owner, if they're holding the property for that long, if they're redeveloping or constructing, building and then selling, then it's slightly different story I find, but when they're holding the building for at least a few years, there's often a discussion around well, what are your management and operational costs over the next three years? And how much can we save you on those? Is it a similar argument in terms of selling in a salary or service to a developer or landlord?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, no, absolutely. And obviously, with the twist that we sell our service as a service, so So you would basically pay a monthly fee that is way lower than your energy savings. So I mean, from our perspective, there's actually no investments that basically like saving money or making money from day one, basically. But obviously, like in the in the startup phase, there can be certain investments that we need to do. And that could be relating, like investing in more sensors, for instance.

But the way that we figure is that well, you want sensors anyway, even if you're not going with that those are not selling your specific sensors. So whether or not whether or not you like it or not, you need the sensors. And then you can subscribe to our service and start saving entity as well as be comfortable with that it's actually locked in with security and oil quality, no matter what happens in the building or outside.

Matt Morley

So sensors you mean ventilation rates as in in inside the HVAC system or in terms of the air that's circulating in the occupied spaces?

Fredrik Tunberg

90% I would say that the sensors inside the HV system that is already in place, is a very rarely that we need to compliment those sensors. But what we want, it all depends on what type of building obviously, but in an in an office building, with a more traditional office building, with a lot of different roofs and stuff like that, we would need some more reference, measuring measurements in in the different groups so that we can securely control the indoor air quality. But as sensor costs, as the cost for sensors comes down even more, it's not a huge investment and maintain away. I would say, yeah, it's minimal compared to what other types of investment can do for themselves.

Matt Morley

That's a much easier sell than than solar panels on a roof. I can tell you from experience. Very good. So how can people learn more? How can they connect? How can they reach out and follow what you're doing?

Fredrik Tunberg

Yeah, w obviously have a website, which is fairly good. It's, it's getting more and more content on it. But we're also trying to stay as active as we possibly can on primarily LinkedIn. That's our channel of choice. And you're always happy to schedule a meeting with me or one of my colleagues to learn more as well. So we're always always eager to

Energy efficiency in green buildings to reduce energy waste

what is energy efficient architecture? Read on to discover these green building approaches examples

Energy consumption in green buildings and energy solutions to reduce energy consumption

Improve energy performance for a more sustainable future

Buildings and the real estate industry in general contribute around 30% of total global energy consumption, making them a vital consideration in the push for a green energy transition away from fossil fuel dependency.

Energy efficient buildings are, like electric and eventually hydrogen-powered cars, a necessary step for the future of our planet, not least due to the ongoing process of urbanization which will see an estimated 70% of the world’s population living in cities by 2050 (Bratman). 

Green buildings new construction

Key factors to consider in building energy efficiency include building orientation and its footprint but there we step into the realm of site planning and selection, architecture and engineering. Beyond new construction then, how can we as green building consultants help in the refurbishment of our existing buildings - a fundamentally more energy efficient and sustainable approach? 

Green buildings refurbishment

Overarching strategies in a refurb project include reducing energy demand, increasing source efficiency, and tracking the live energy use of the building. Together these provide the building blocks of energy efficient refurbished buildings. The ideal goal of course being net zero or net positive buildings.

Specifically, demand can be reduced through strategies such as passive design and green roofs. Energy source efficiency can involve implementing energy efficient lighting, efficient HVAC (air con ventilation) and elevator systems, as well as renewable energy production on site via solar panels on the roof, for example. 

energy efficient building solutions

With the incorporation of some or all of these energy reducing green building strategies, there is then a requirement for ongoing tracking and monitoring of progress in energy efficiency so that facilities management have a real time picture of the energy consumption patterns in the building.

Demand Reduction in green buildings

Demand reduction in sustainable green buildings involves strategies that reduce the upfront energy needs, lowering the amount of energy consumed and paving the way towards greater energy efficiency overall. Passive design as well as the implementation of green and cool roofs are several strategies to reduce energy demand. 

Passive Design in sustainable buildings - energy saving in construction

Passive design is a concept in which the sustainable building design works with local climate conditions to reduce the need for energy use.  Passive design includes strategies such as daylighting, natural ventilation, and passive heating, which all can reduce energy demand. This is all done in the building modeling phase of a new construction project.

The use of daylighting through windows, skylights and other openings can reduce the need for electrical lights. In addition, in hotter months, the use of daylighting can reduce cooling loads, as on average it produces less heat per unit of illumination than electric lights.

Natural ventilation utilizes outdoor air and winds to bring fresh air into a building. This can help regulate indoor air quality and appease the need for mechanical ventilation, as well as increasing thermal comfort through passive cooling. Most commonly, natural ventilation can be incorporated through the installation of operable windows. This strategy is dependent on the quality of the outdoor air available in the site in question, a factor that can vary by hour, day and season.

energy efficient buildings examples

In addition, solar energy can be used to reduce the need of heating, for example, direct solar gain - which provides places where the sun can enter a space directly - can help to heat a living area.

If paired with thermal mass structures, the sun can heat a mass such as a wall throughout the day and release this heat throughout the evening - a common strategy in traditional buildings in the Middle-East for example.

Green Roofs & Cool Roofs in Sustainable Buildings

Roofs are often an untapped resource in buildings, when in reality they have a lot of potential for energy demand reduction. Roofs are subject to the highest amount of solar irradiance across the entire building envelope (Costanzo).

Cool roofs utilize highly reflective coating such as white paint to increase reflectivity, while green roofs use vegetation as a cover to increase cooling capabilities of a building (Costanzo). 

Although there are pros and cons to green roofs and cool roofs, both reduce building cooling demand (Costanzo). Cool roofs have been found to lower the temperatures of roofs more than green roofs, but green roofs provide some insulation in cooler seasons. 

Green roofs provide additional benefits such as air purification and biophilia benefits if made accessible to building occupants. However, due to the maintenance factor of greenery, cool roofs are an easier practice to implement in terms of initial investment. 

Energy Efficiency Lighting  in Sustainable Buildings

A low hanging fruit of energy efficiency is to incorporate energy efficient lights such as LED bulbs. Generally, this is a very cheap intervention that can provide considerable energy savings. 

Such bulbs consume more than three times less than the energy used by fluorescents and less than a seventh of the energy used by incandescent bulbs. In addition, LEDs provide a higher lumen output, which increases safety and sight, they also have a much longer life span (Taddonio)

In addition to lighting replacements, other strategies such as motion sensors, dimmers and timers can be used to reduce energy and maintenance costs. Hallway lighting can be adjusted based on the time of day and natural light presence.

Desk and office lighting can be adjusted based on hours worked in office and dimmed or turned off when not necessary (“Managing”). These strategies can be very effective at reducing energy consumption, especially when combined.  

Efficient Machinery

Once demand reduction strategies have been implemented, the next step is to make sure that the appliances and machinery that are functioning within the building are as efficient as possible and are consuming less energy. For example, the HVAC systems, elevators, and other machinery within the building. 

HVAC systems generally run on a clock depending on the building use type. For example, an apartment building may need to be run on a 24-hour cycle, while an office building HVAC system can be shut off at night when no one is in the workplace to avoid excess energy use.

energy efficiency solutions

In addition, the systems themselves should be chosen based on those that are designed to consume less energy when in use. Various space types align better with different HVAC systems, so proper planning is required to make the most informed decisions. 

In addition to HVAC systems, other machinery such as elevators tend to be large energy consumers in buildings. It is important to install energy efficient lifts and elevators to avoid excess energy use. 

To aid with the decision-making process, there are various standards and resources. For example, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Energy Star Program designates energy-efficient appliances that contain more high performing systems (“The Science”).

Renewable Energy Production in Green Buildings

In addition to incorporating energy efficient appliances and fixtures, the use of renewable energy and the potential to produce it onsite is a very effective green building strategy. Solar is the most common and easily applied renewable energy source on a building site. 

Panels are commonly placed on roofs and should be angled to best receive the sun, which varies depending on location and building orientation. However, newer technologies are providing ways that solar technology can be incorporated into facades, for example. 

When making sustainable solar energy decisions, it is important to consider location and feasibility of potential solar gain, as well as if there is enough area to install enough panels to provide an ample energy source - at the very least, a green building project team should consider wiring in the cables for future installation of solar panels on the roof during the refurb or construction process, even if funds are not immediately available to purchase them. 

Benchmarking, Tracking and Monitoring green building energy

Once a green building energy efficiency plan has been implemented, there is a need for building energy use monitors to track ongoing performance. Several third-party organizations such as ASHRAE, ANSI, and IESNA provide baselines; for example, ASHRAE 90.1-2010 is the energy efficiency standard. 

After a baseline is set and goals are made, a process known as commissioning is implemented. This process, as described in the LEED green building standard is the “process of verifying and documenting that a building/all of its systems are planned, designed, operated and maintained to meet the owners project requirements” (LEED).

This concept encourages projects to continue to operate according to the initial goals and monitor energy consumption to maintain desired efficiency levels.

The installation of sub-meters and automated building controls allow building operation managers to track energy costs and usage by area, as well as aiding the control of building wide energy use.

Building Energy Management Systems (BEMS) are common systems that are used for monitoring and controlling building energy use.

Net + Energy in Green Buildings as a way to go beyond merely saving energy

The ultimate goal for us as sustainability consultants in real estate is to create Net Positive Energy buildings, meaning that more energy is created on site from renewable sources than is consumed by the building—therefore giving back rather than taking from energy sources.

In other words, going further than efforts to merely save energy or improve energy efficiency and reduce energy consumption in residential buildings, for example. Here we look to go much further than that.

Net Zero Energy buildings, a relatively more attainable yet nonetheless challenging goal, produce the same amount of energy on site as they consume, avoiding energy resource depletion with energy efficient equipment and so on.

To achieve that requires systems thinking, looking at a building in a joined-up manner, exploring how distinct elements of the system can work together to make a more efficient whole.

Sustainable Building, energy conservation and carbon emissions Sources used in this article

Bratman, Gregory, and Gretchen Daily. The Benefits of Nature Experience: Improved Affect and Cognition. Tech. Vol. 138. Stanford: n.p., 2015. Landscape and Urban Planning. Stanford University Libraries. Web. 24 Oct. 2016. 

“Building Energy Management Systems Bems.” Building Energy Management Systems BEMS - Designing Buildings, 27 Oct. 2021, https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Building_energy_management_systems_BEMS. 

Costanzo, V., et al. “Energy Savings in Buildings or UHI Mitigation? Comparison between Green Roofs and Cool Roofs.” Energy and Buildings, Elsevier, 12 May 2015, www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378778815003527. 

 “Managing Energy Costs in Hospitals.” 2010.

O’Malley, Christopher, et al. “Urban Heat Island (UHI) Mitigating Strategies: A Case- Based Comparative Analysis.” Sustainable Cities and Society, Elsevier, 14 June 2015, www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210670715000657. 

Taddonio, Kristen. “Energy-Efficient Hospital Lighting Strategies Pay Off Quickly.” BUILDING TECHNOLOGIES PROGRAM, July 2011, commercialbuildings.energy.gov/hospital. 

“THE SCIENCE BEHIND HEALTHY HOMES: 25 FACTORS THAT IMPACT YOUR HOME.” Delos, 2020. 

---

Further Reading

• The Secrets Of A Healthy Building

• Sustainable Green Building Water Use

• The Best New Green & Healthy Office Buildings In Barcelona, Spain

• The Role Of Rooftops In Healthy Sustainable Building Designs

• Sustainable Office Space - Make Your Office More Eco-Friendly

• Organic Building Materials And Their Benefits

• Introducing The World Green Building Council Health & Wellbeing Framework

• the secrets of a healthy building: ‍9 essential principles for optimal wellness and sustainability

• What Is Circular Economy In Regenerative Real Estate?

• Top Five Real Estate Developers Using Biophilia For Sustainability & Wellbeing

sustainable green building water efficiency — biofilico wellness interiors

green building / sustainability / water efficiency / leed / living building challenge / breeam

Water efficiency and use reduction in green buildings

Outdoors, more indirect green building strategies such as smart landscaping (or xeriscaping - using plants that require no additional irrigation other than the expected annual rainfall in each location) can have large impacts on building site water use.

Indoors, green building water use reduction strategies such as the installation of efficient fixtures and appliances and low flow plumbing fixtures are crucial.

A significant portion of water usage in buildings is dedicated to flushing toilets, making it crucial to implement water-saving technologies in these areas.

For bathrooms, green building technologies include ultra-low flow water closets and urinals, which use pressure-assisted flushes and dual-flush water closets, which distinguish between liquid and solid flush options. In addition, waterless fixtures can be implemented, such as waterless urinals or composting toilets (LEED).

More generally, low-flow aerators can be installed at minimal cost, essentially a water flow constrictor that reduces water output from faucets. In outdoor contexts, strategies such as drip irrigation and landscape irrigation can be implemented, which is a more efficient strategy that delivers water directly to plant roots (LEED).

Implementing water-saving technologies such as low-flow plumbing fixtures and greywater systems can significantly reduce water consumption in green buildings.

When considering which types of green building appliances to install, benchmarking tools can a green building consultant’s best friend as a way to cut through any potential greenwashing and guarantee maximum impact in water reduction terms.

For example, the WaterSense label, a partnership with the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), provides invaluable guidance on water efficient fixtures. Green building products with the WaterSense label are designated to be at least 20% more efficient that other appliances in that category.

In outdoor irrigation contexts, broader strategies that include location and site characteristics can be implemented. Rainfall and climate vary greatly based on location, so outdoor water use strategies will shift based on these factors.

Native and locally adapted species can be implemented in landscaping plans to reduce the need for irrigation and, as a bonus to provide wildlife habitats, promoting biodiversity. In addition, xeriscaping uses a combination of soil improvements, native plants, and efficient irrigation to reduce water use (LEED).

Alternative water sources in a green building concept

Within the United States alone, buildings account for 14% of potable water use (LEED). The Living Building Challenge’s Water Petal section suggests that no potable water should be used when it is not needed, ie, besides in the case of drinking water, potable water use in a green building should be avoided for water conservation.

Rather, water reclamation systems such as greywater and rainwater recycling should be used to provide alternative water sources. Rainwater harvesting is an effective method to collect and utilize rainwater for various purposes, reducing the strain on local water resources.

As mentioned, understanding the relationship between site location and climate has a large role to play in any green building plan. In the cases where ample rainwater is available, rainwater capture systems can be an investment that pays off handsomely in the medium-term, especially in locations with limited water availability and local water resources. Rainwater can be collected passively or actively then used for irrigation, process water, or flush fixtures.

Passive strategies such as rain gardens or dry ponds redirect water to planted areas and provide irrigation assistance. Active rainwater management systems capture, store, and transport water to a desired application. Active systems can be helpful as rain is weather dependent, providing greater flexibility to when and where the water can be applied (LEED).

Graywater recycling is another alternative water resource that allows for reuse of otherwise discarded water. This process involves the collection, treatment, and storage of water discharged from kitchens, showers and other sources and can provide non-potable reuse applications (BREEAM). Most commonly, this water can be reused in flush fixtures and helps reduce water demand in buildings.

The use of alternative water sources in tandem with more efficient appliances and water reduction strategies can greatly reduce building site water usage.

Monitoring water performance in a green building

As with many sustainable building trends and air quality, monitoring and regulating performance is vital to ensuring success. Ensuring water efficiency is crucial for the well-being of future generations, as it helps preserve water resources and promotes sustainability. Devices should be implemented to monitor water usage trends and identify any potential problems, as recommended by the green building council.

Sub-meters are devices that monitor water leaks, measure usage, and provide the potential to make building improvements with the provision of this data (LEED). Being part of a green building initiative, such as those promoted by the Green Building Council, can provide valuable resources and support for implementing water-saving measures. Leak detection systems are very important in the case of major leaks, which for obvious reasons could affect building water use and water consumption efficiency (BREEAM).

It is vital that this water data is tracked and regulated by those who oversee the operations and maintenance of the building. In addition, if select information such as water use is displayed to building occupants, additional benefits from behavioral changes can be achieved. Displaying real-time water information can encourage water-saving behaviors among building occupants, leading to reduced water consumption.

A concept known as the Prius Effect states that when presented with information, people tend to have a greater incentive to reduce consumption. The concept was derived from the Prius car, which encouraged drivers to further reduce gas consumption when efficiency information was made available. In the case of water usage, real-time water information can be displayed in places where people use water to encourage further reductions from a behavioral standpoint.

The monitoring of water performance can feed back into the other strategies of water reduction, water efficiency, and alternative water resources. As design decisions are made, the reality of those decisions can be tracked in real time to provide further guidance on the most effective efficiency measures.

Sustainable Urban Rooftops with UrbanStrong

Green Roofs for green buildings

Welcome to episode 041 of the Green & Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and interiors. This week I'm back in Brooklyn, New York talking to the Principal of UrbanStrong Alan Burchell.

Alan trained as a mechanical engineer, with a background in HVAC and plumbing systems then slowly migrated across into renewable energy and eventually to vegetative rooftops so he has a very technical, hands-on take on the practicalities of urban greenery solutions.

Green Rooftop for wellbeing

We discuss trends in rooftop gardens in New York in the wake of Covid lockdowns, the wellbeing benefits of connecting with nature on a rooftop, as well as the economic and environmental benefits of a green roof from a range of different stakeholder perspectives - occupants, developers and city government.

We look at green roofs and stormwater management, new legislation pushing for green and solar rooftops on new build projects in NY, the opportunities in rooftop food production and green roofs in the context of the healthy buildings concept.

Vegetative Roof Benefits

Arguably my main takeaway from this convo is the interconnectedness of benefits once one brings nature back into the city via the rooftops, they deliver multiple functions at once, even if the building owner is not actually interested in half of them! It’s a valuable insight and Alan has a positive message to spread, so enjoy the episode and hit subscribe to receive next week’s download too.

:

Conversation highlights

It doesn’t feel right that with we have so little opportunity to connect with nature here given the huge percentage of our lives we spend in dense urban centers.

Green roofs clean and cool the air, sequester carbon and provide rooftop habitats for birds, bees, bats, butterflies, and much more. 

Farm-to-table is great but roof-to-table is even better

Green roofs perform multiple functions with societal, environmental, building operations, and mental health benefits, all simultaneously. 

Building owners should be thinking of their rooftops as buckets instead of lids, because there's money falling out of the sky.

Solar panels lose operating efficiency when the ambient air around them gets too hot but Plants cool the air around them through through evapotranspiration so when you install solar panels directly on top of green roofing, the plants cool the air underneath the solar panels and help them to produce more electricity

GUEST / ALAN BURCHELL / PRINCIPAL, URBANSTRONG

• https://urbanstrong.com/

• LinkedIn

• Insta

• Facebook

• Book reference: Nature's Best Hope

• Brooklyn Grange Farm

HOST / MATT MORLEY / WELLBEING CHAMPION

• https://biofit.io/

• https://www.mattmorley.net/

FULL TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS COURTESY OF OTTER.AI (excuse typos)

MM

Alan tell us about your background in sustainability and how you came to be the principal at UrbanStrong

AB

Sure thing. First of all, Matt, thanks for having me. It's a real honor to be on the show. So formally, I trained in undergrad as a mechanical engineer, and a lot of mechanical engineers who don't know what they want to do coming out of school University wind up getting sucked into working for consulting firms, specifically engineering consulting firms.

So I worked at a mechanical electrical consulting firm who did all kinds of work for different building types. And I specifically was designing HVAC systems, plumbing and piping and fire suppression systems for banks, condos, restaurants, you name it, that was a little bit dry. I was a little bit young, that was kind of living for the weekends. And I realized I needed a change. And I didn't know this term at the time. But what I was looking for was a career path with a vein of some sort of social responsibility going through it. 

So I went back to school, I did a business degree and found the world of renewable energies. And within the world of renewable energies, wind energy was most appealing to me. It had the dynamic nature of wind turbines that appealed to the mechanical engineer in me, but then the renewable green energy component that appealed to the the outdoorsman and the environmentalist

 I worked in that industry for a Spanish wind turbine manufacturer at their North American corporate headquarters just outside of Philadelphia. 

Eventually, then, I wanted to get further entrenched in the world of sustainability. I started studying up on the space and I found the world of green vegetated rooftops and that really checked a lot of boxes for me because I'm a big city as much as I love the outdoors. I really like big cities, I've had the blessed opportunity to live in several around the world. Toronto, Barcelona, London, Shanghai, Philadelphia, now New York, and it never sat well with me the idea that in order to connect with nature, someone had to get out of the city, like go up to a cabin or cottage lake house go to the beach. 

It doesn’t feel right that with we have so little opportunity to connect with nature here given the huge percentage of our lives we spend in dense urban centers. 

 I had a side interest in architecture, interior design, and every cubicle or office I've ever had has always been chock full of plants.

I realized that green roof systems are multifaceted in their benefits, and that they offer to building owners, people battling climate change, municipalities looking to mitigate issues that plague modern day dense urban centers… they checked all these boxes. 

So I went into the world of green rooftops, I first naively thought, Great, I'll start my own Green Roof Company. And then I realized very quickly that there are already several people doing this design build firms in New York City doing exactly this. So I couldn't really go from never having heard of green roofs to being competitive in the New York City Market in a short span of time.

Instead, I decided to insert myself in the market in with the only tools that I had with me, other than enthusiasm for green roofs, and that was engineering system sales. And so from my previous career, I started basically offering third party, freelance business development or a really dirty word for it would be brokerage of green roof sale. 

I would go out and beat the streets and look for clients and building owners, sell them on the idea of green roofs, and then connect them with green roof design, build firms, collect a bit of a commission, and then move on from there. 

That evolved very quickly into offering the same for rooftop solar, living walled gardens. And then over the years, it's grown and grown in line with the sustainable buildings concept!

I offer them a range of sustainable green roof and green building consulting services from design, build or long term maintenance for green roofs, living walls, rooftop solar, advanced stormwater systems for rooftops, and all of the above.

MM  

In the end you are offering a kind of vertically integrated service / product offer which makes complete sense because once someone jumps into bed with you, it's natural that they should want a complete service from one trusted sustainable green roofs supplier. 

You mentioned New York, we can hear background noise from New York, which sounds brilliant, but like tell me what's happening at the moment there. What's the scene looking like? How have you seen a change over the last few years? And where do you see it going? Like what's what's happening there specifically in your location, your city, your hometown?

AB

Look, COVID cannot be ignored. It probably finds its way into every episode of your podcast in one way or another right?

How I've seen it specifically impact our industry, our multifamily residential, Co Op, condo buildings and whatnot. Those folks who perhaps had declined to move forward with a rooftop amenity space or green rooftop amenity space in the past, found themselves calling us back up during COVID saying, ‘Okay, we get it now, we really see the value in having a private rooftop garden space exclusive for residents in the building where they can access without having to go out into public.’

And we used to sell it as ‘Hey, wouldn't it be nice to take a mug of tea up to your own green roof rather than having to go out to a city park and people really understood that during COVID. 

So, demand for outdoor terrace spaces and for green space has really increased from that perspective. Similarly with everyone quarantining and working from home more so than ever, people are critically evaluating their indoor surroundings and asking whether how this space contributes or maybe negatively affects their mental health. 

And so people are now starting to click into realizing that plants are a great prescription for the quarantined and so people were looking for ways to bring greenery into their home, whether that's on a terrace in the form of a little green roof on the rooftop, a lush green roof or indoors as living walls. 

Because you can only fit so many potted plants on your windowsill or on your bookshelf and then you run out of space and if you want to go heavy with the greenery you've only got so much floor space but a lot of people have excess wall space so you could build a living garden wall really lush out green out your indoor space but not consumed that valuable footprint real estate.

MM  

That talks to the ‘mental wellbeing’ and healthy buildings side, the human aspect to it, I think we can all connect with that at a very primal level but there are economic and environmental benefits, too. How do you see those two factors playing into a decision making process around installing one of these green roofs in a sustainable building, whether or not they are pursuing a green building certification? 

AB 

Sure, it really depends on which stakeholder we're talking about Because the New York City government are motivated for people to build green roofs for a host of reasons. Private property owners and building owners are motivated to build green roofs for a very different set of reasons. 

The thing I like before we get into those reasons about that situation, though, is with green roofs, regardless of which set of benefits you're most interested in, and what's motivating you to buy the green roof, you get the other benefits as part of the package. 

It's like if you and I buy the same swiss army knife, you may be buying it for the Phillips screwdriver and maybe I want it for the tweezers and the scissors. But we get each other's tools when we because we're buying the same swiss army knife. 

most green roofs being built in New York City, if we're being perfectly honest, are by wealthy people who are building these lush green oases, you know, terraces or rooftops because they want a calm, green natural space on top of the city where they can drink rose wine spritzes with their friends and relax. 

As the environmentalist I like green roofs because they're managing stormwater, sequestering carbon, providing habitat and food for migratory and local species and whatnot. 

But whether the clients care about that stuff or are aware of that stuff or not. Either way they are providing the city or the general public all of those benefits when they build their swanky rooftop garden oasis, as far as direct benefits, and this is how I've definitely seen things change in New York dramatically. 

speaking from the city perspective, many of the older, larger North American cities are battling a stormwater management crisis. And that's because our sewer systems were designed 150 years ago, when there was only a fraction of the pavement space and everything was, you know, the island of Manhattan was mostly farmer's fields above the absolute downtown. 

So rain didn't really go into the sewer, it all landed on the open green space. And 150 years ago, there was only a fraction of the toilets now, you know, population a 9 million that's a lot more toilets in the world 150 years ago, so there's nowhere for the rainwater to go except hitting pavement going into storm drains or hitting rooftops and going down the scuppers into the sewer drain. And there's way more wastewater being generated, and then going being sent through indoor plumbing directly down into the sewer. 

We in in several North American larger cities on the east coast, the older ones at least like Toronto, New York, DC, Philly Chicago, we have what's called a combined sewer system. That basically means there's it's a single pipe system, so rainwater and toilet water all goes down into the same pipe on a dry day where you can still manage to process all of it at the wastewater treatment facility. 

But in New York City, for example, it only takes 1/20 of an inch of rain that's about between one and two millimeters of rain is all that's required to max out the city's wastewater pipe going down to the wastewater treatment facility. And so the excess rather than having it pushed back up and through people's toilets, and flood their homes, or push back up through the roof through the storm drains in the streets and flood the streets, the excess is just allowed to flow over through what are called combined sewer overflow points. And there's 460 of these combined sewer overflow points lining the New York City Harbor. And people put really, really gnarly stuff down the toilet, way worse for our health than feces and urine. 

We're talking like, you know, illicit drugs, expired birth control medication, cancer medication, broken glass batteries, I mean, people are animals, and they put awful stuff down the toilet in the privacy of their own home. And all of that is flushing out into our local waterways here in New York and the local waterways of all the other cities I just mentioned to you, whenever there's more than two millimeters of rain in the city or you know, 1/20 of an inch. 

So, that is a major problem that cities are being fined at the federal level to clean jp. And so now the options are, you know, tear up the sewer system and put a new one in which is preposterous that could never possibly happen to New York, or you know, put down more parkland. But you know, every inch of New York City's developed you can't tear up a city block and put a new park but nothing says these Park parks have to be at grade level and nothing says these parks have to be continuous they can be distributed parks cut up into tiny places and put up on top of the rooftops where the rainwater lands. And so basically green roofs, these many little rooftop parks act as sponges, they absorb the rainwater right where it lands on the roof. 

Half the water never makes it off the roof because it's just used for photosynthesis and Evapo transpired by the plants up into the atmosphere. And the rest of the water takes its time to percolate through the system. 

Green roofs clean and cool the air, sequester carbon and provide rooftop habitats for birds, bees, bats, butterflies, and much more. 

So there's a whole host of environmental reasons why cities like green roofs, they also like rooftop solar here in New York City for reasons that should be obvious by now. 

So a big change that I've seen recently was as part of New York City's Green New Deal or the climate mobilization act, I and a few other people testified at City Hall back in January 2019. In support of a few key pieces of legislation, they were all unanimously passed, but a big one that's going to have a major impact on the skyline of New York City, specifically, its rooftops is something called local law 9294. And this basically mandates that all new construction and certain retrofit projects must install either a green roof or a rooftop solar, there are certain exclusions if it's too sloped, or if you don't have the structural capacity or if it's too shady, or whatnot. But nonetheless, this is going to have a massive impact in in driving change to the greening of New York City's rooftop. 

So this is a big change, it only really came into effect about a year ago. And so this is for all new building permits. And as buildings start to go up, you're going to see the number of green roofs and solar installations in New York City, honestly skyrocket. So that's an exciting, exciting change here.

MM  

That's the city in a way laying out his vision for the future in terms of how roofs need to play a functional role in protecting the city itself and the urban landscape from from climate change from the negative impact that we're bringing, just by building cities of this.

AB

Absolutely. I mean rooftops are the front line, whether you're talking about the photons from sunlight or the raindrops from clouds, one of the first things they're both hitting is the rooftops in the city. So that's a frontline defense to capture these photons and use them to generate electricity. 

I may also add that as you capture these photons on solar panels, that means they're not hitting the roof membrane and not heating up the membrane and not sending all that latent heat baking down And driving up air conditioning bills in the summertime. 

Green roofs do the same thing. The leaves of plants are actually the plant solar panels because that's their food energy, if you will, from the photons and use it to photosynthesize, and grow plant more plant matter. But again, they're intercepting those photons or preventing them from hitting the roof membrane - plants can act as the first line of defense yet in New York City, less than 0.01% of rooftops are greened in any way and it's a very much out of sight is out of mind situation.

New York City is like a lot of other really expensive urban centers around the globe. It's absolutely obsessed with real estate, the cost of real estate, the cost per square foot to buy or own or rent or whatnot. And yet no one does anything with the rooftops they max out every square centimeter of their apartment yet building rooftops are completely undeveloped - I find that odd but that's changing as the city realizes it's a massive wasted opportunity to solve many problems that plague urban centers around the world.

MM  

I sometimes see a rooftop used for an element of food production, whether that food is then consumed by those living in the building or whether it's distributed or handed out to those in need in the local area, whatever it may be.

Do you see that as an exception rather than The rule when it comes to how to utilize a rooftop, or are there real benefits in terms of making a more resilient city so that there's more local kilometer zero production happening on site around NYC around Manhattan?

AB

It's a bit of everything - all of the reasons that I've mentioned above that why city municipalities, city governments like green roofs, it doesn't matter whether the plants, at the very top layer of the green roof are ornamental amenity space plants that are there just for aesthetics, or if they're there as food crops, they're still performing all of the critical functions and offering the same benefits as every type of green roof does in terms of stormwater management, sequestering carbon, insulating buildings, providing habitat for species and whatnot.

I think urban food production on rooftops is a massive opportunity for cities around the world - we encourage all of our green roof clients to dedicate at least some portion of their green roof to a little urban agriculture culture plot 

As I'm looking out the window right now, my neighbors are Brooklyn Grange - one of the largest rooftop farms in the world, here in New York. So that's a fully commercial operating farm on top of a commercial building. But there's plenty of green roofs in a city where maybe it's an amenity space on a multi a private, you know, residential building, and maybe the residents will ask us to dedicate, you know, a few square meters off to one corner, for like a little tomato plant growing a little plot there or something like that. 

Yeah, there's plenty of opportunities to create sustainable green local jobs, and then produce food that's either used if it's in a commercial entity, like for the the building tenants themselves, or can be sold or distributed or donated to the local community. And it definitely speaks to improving the resiliency of the city.

Most cities are importing their food from other cities or other countries. And the more that you can grow locally, the less reliant you are on other cities for your food production. So you're certainly becoming more self sufficient in that regard even before considering the transmission emissions, I mean, if we're trucking, you know, fresh fruit in from California, it's got to come all the way across, it's not quite as fresh by the time it gets here, it's also expensive to truck it in, and there's certain carbon emissions related to all that transportation to ship it over. So all of that is eliminated, when you can be growing right off the roof.

farm to table is great but roof to table is even better

Matt Morley  

So the key point I'm picking up there is that it's not one or the other, the way these natural roofs work is that they can do multiple things at the same time. So you're not neglecting for example, improved biodiversity by adding an agricultural component to your green roof. In fact, it's multiple layers of benefits rather than one to the exclusion of anything else.

AB

green roofs perform multiple functions with societal, environmental, building operations, and mental health benefits, all simultaneously. 

And, and passively, you know, whether we like it to or not, again, the people who are if a wealthy couple just wants to build a fancy rooftop garden amenity space just for their own family, let's say those plants are still sequestering carbon cleaning and cooling the air you know, thermally insulating the space which reduce improves their energy efficiency and probably reduces their reliance on fossil fuel power plants. 

And again, maybe they don't care about all of that maybe they're not aware of it, maybe they don't care for a lot of our clients, we will if in in lieu of any input from them around plant species selection, we are going to lean heavily towards favoring native and adaptive plant species so as to you know, improve conditions for local and migratory species

If anyone wants to deeper dive on this topic, there's a book called nature's best hope. And it's by Douglas Tallamy, he speaks extensively on the topic of the urgent need for people when they're doing landscaping, in their homes, around their buildings, whether it's on the rooftop or at grade, using native plants that are native to the area or adaptive rather than bringing in these plants that are not native to the region and maybe are going to require quite a lot of resources in order to keep them alive and whatever your respective microclimate is. 

And then also they could be potentially, you know, we, the concrete jungles are creating these like these, these these blot out of blue down at a loss for words here, these these scorched earth kind of patches all around the globe where nature can't really thrive, or birds, who maybe after, you know, hundreds of generations are of programming are used to flying that migratory path when they're used to touching down there to rest, or seek food or, or, or or procreate, they can't do that now, because it's all some urban sprawl is created a concrete spread. 

And so anything that we can do to recreate what they're used to having there as far as greenery that houses the bugs that they want to eat, or provides habitat for them to build nests, or rest, anything we can do to help with that will reduce the impact that our urban centers and urban sprawl are having on the local ecology.

Matt Morley  

So when you zero in on solar panels, for example, where you're really integrating a technical component, perhaps more of an engineering angle, there, the benefits presumably reduce and focus more on the environmental impact the economic play rather than nature. So when you're proposing those, what are the conditions under which you would typically propose solar panels to be in the mix or to be the dominant force on any given rooftop?

AB

I'll give you the highlight reel, but it's actually such an involved answer sometimes. And it's, it really needs to be determined on a case by case basis that, you know, years ago, we actually, we realized we were giving away so much upfront free consulting for buildings, because they would call up and say, Hey, we've got a roof Should we go green roof for solar, we see that you offer both. And there would just be such an involved process to determine which is best for them and their goals and their budget - we now offer it as a branched off consulting service, in advance of either building them a green roof or a solar, you know, we're sort of It's a discovery process, if you will, or a service. 

On a really high level, there's a few things you know, we can either go process of elimination, like a lot of time, people will call up saying they want a green roof and I started asking them questions, and one decision or another or one element or another could kill the green roof project and green roofs, they get killed, they die on the vine all the time. And then that leaves them with what they feel is a useless rooftop.

 I say, well hang on, there's always solar, you know, when it comes to solar money is falling out of the sky and solar panels are buckets. So your your roof is far from useless, it can be a great source of passive income for your building, especially now that it turns out that you can't build the green roof that you wanted for whatever reason. 

So for example, solar panels are quite are quite lightweight, they're really only about five pounds per square foot. I'll let you translate that into kilos and put that on the show notes compared to say solar sorry, compared to say green roofs, which at their lightest are going to be say 15 pounds per square foot and but they get heavy very quickly. 

As a little rule of thumb green roofs tend to weigh six and a half pounds per inch of depth per square foot. And a minimum at the minimum, you're the average green roof is three to four inches. So we're talking at least 18 to 25 pounds per square foot compared to solar that's five or six. 

Now that to be clear, that's when the green roof is fully saturated or holding the most amount of stormwater that it's it's designed to from an engineering perspective. But that's not including. If it's meant to be a public amenity space and or just amended in official amenity space listed on the building certificate of occupancy basically, are you officially decreeing to the city that this is an amenity area for the building? 

Because the moment you do that, in New York City, for example, you have to show that you have structural capacity at 100 pounds per square foot if people are going to be walking around up there. 

So if you have a deck, and people are going to be congregating there with any regularity, and then you have greenery around it, and that's your green roof, you're going to need at least 100 pounds per square foot in the areas where the people congregate. And so a lot of buildings don't have that. 

And so that's an a lot of building owners will say, well hang on, if we can't use it as an amenity space, we don't we don't want it as a green roof. And then that that's that's frequently what kills a lot of greener projects in New York City. So then you're left with solar?

MM  

I'm sure it's a question you're asked often by clients, no doubt far earlier in the process than you might like. But inevitably, the economics of all this has to come into play at some point. There are some big numbers involved. I know. But why don't we just have a quick overview if we can have the financial side, and what we're looking at in terms of these green roofs, and how perhaps different sizes, if it's shapes or densities or planting strategies can all affect exactly how much the overall budget equates to.

AB

So that really ranges. I mean, it just depends on so many different factors. It's hard to speak absolutely about this, because it changes even within New York City, the exact same green roof technology, because beneath the plants was a wide array of technologies, the exact same green roof technology, in the exact same neighborhood of New York City on two very different buildings could cost $17 A square foot or it could cost $60 per square foot.

I'd say the two big the two biggest factors are economies of scale is massive for green roofs, because what a lot of construction projects make mobilization is a big one. 

So to make an extreme example, if you're mobilizing a crew, maybe you're getting a crane permit, you put design hours and just to make an extreme absurd example, if you're doing all of that for one square meter or a one square foot green roof now just to make an example, right, the all those costs per square meter per square foot would be outrageous. 

But if the exact same designer, same crane permit, same crew mobilization same design, ours is allocated over 500 square meters or 100 square meters or 500 square feet 1000 square feet, you can obviously see that that cost per square foot is going to drop like a stone. 

Similarly with solar panels, oh that so but sticking with green roofs, the other thing that can really drive it would be access. So I mentioned there a second cranes, I mean, if we can crane the material up that's one efficient way to get a lot of material up to the roof very quickly. 

However, depending on what part of New York City that you're in, that crane can cost anywhere from $5,000 a day to $40,000 a day. Depending on the permitting do you have to block off the road you have to build these protective sidewalk sheds so that people can still walk along the sidewalk underneath. So the crane costs cranes can either save you a lot of money with efficiency or kill the project with additional costs. 

But at the other extreme, you know, sometimes for like a brownstone, like the classic brownstone roof. Sometimes the only way to get material there is for the installers to carry it on their back up a ladder through a hatch in the ceiling. And that's obviously that's not as efficient as a crane. 

A good in between would be they have these things called blower trucks. And so basically a big almost like a dump truck but full of growing media or let's call it soil for now for the green roof that pulls up out front of the building. And there's a giant hose that can go up like six storeys tall, and it blows the dirt like a reverse vacuum from the truck up six storeys, and they just spray it like a garden hose, but it's dirt. 

So that's a great way to convey materials up. And yeah, I'm kind of going all over the place here. But access and economy of scale as far as the square area of the project can greatly affect the cost per square foot of a green roof. 

I'd say similarly, there's there's different types of green roofs, right? I mean, we have there's very gorgeous like alarmingly beautiful English Garden meadow looking things that you may see if a five star hotel is building a rooftop amenity space, they're going to want the highest end landscaping green roof up there possible and they're going to want it to look that nice and green and well kept for as many months of the year before the winter kicks in. 

Contrast that so that's going to be very expensive on a per square foot basis. You know, you'd have like top of the top of the line automated irrigation to act as an insurance policy. In case there's not enough precipitation, you're going to want to have nice lighting and benches, paver stones, walkways a wide range of herbaceous and woody species and you know blue different you know, you're going to want to sink a lot of time and energy and money into the design of that, you know, you're going to want a Professionally licensed landscape architect attacking that problem to really make sure that it's looking absolutely banging for as many months of the year. 

Contrast that with, say, a sprawling, single storey warehouse in an industrial park, who may be they never plan on going up there, they never plan on seeing it, they only want it because it's going to protect the roof membrane from UV degradation. 

So they don't need to replace the roof membrane every 20 years. Instead, they replace it every 50 or 60 years. And all that green matter up there, as I mentioned earlier, is going to intercept the sun's energy, the photons and soak up that otherwise, he energy that's going to hit the roof membrane and beatdown for a lot of these single storey warehouses, their air conditioning bills are absolutely astronomical in the summertime. 

And it's just to keep the plants sorry, the warehouse warehouse plants are operating at a comfortable condition either for the goods that are being stored inside, or for the workers that are in there. And if you just have a black tar bitumen roof, and the sun is baking down on that, and you're a single storey building, your AC bills can be astronomical, but a thin, basic crummy looking, you know, low hanging fruit bargain basement, green roof, that's only one or two inches deep. 

And you have systems which are sort of in the cactus family, they're like drought tolerant, they're not the best looking, but they're the workhorse plant species and green roofs, if you just build the most basic green roof possible, and you could do that for you know, depending on the size of the roof, maybe, you know, 15 or $18 per square foot, that's before any tax breaks that are available, you could slash your air conditioning bills in that building by anywhere from 60 to 80%. 

So that just from the air conditioning bills alone, you pay off that green roof in no time. And, and then again, you could just frankly, let it go to help you don't care what it looks like, you know, because it's not an amenity space, you don't really need to spend a lot of money upfront on expensive looking plant species. And you don't need to spend a lot of time maintaining it, you can just kind of let nature take it over and let it turn into a real nature roof so to speak.

MM  

Okay, so then the flip side of that, surely is is the benefits and the return on the investment or just the outgoings at the front end. But what the owner developer landlord is getting back over the medium to long term.

AB

Yeah, from an accounting perspective, building owners see the rooftop as a cost center. No one thinks about their building rooftop making money from they just think, Oh, God, this damn thing is going to leak again. And the only think about is how much money they're going to need to reinvest to put another layer of patchwork and new waterproofing on top. And they don't realize and instead of being a source of headache and stress and a cost center, it can be a revenue generator and a source of joy. 

You can catch money falling out of the sky, whether that's photons from sunlight or stormwater if you're in DC, it can be your piggy bank on top of your roof. 

Building owners should be thinking of their rooftops as buckets instead of lids, because there's money falling out of the sky.

Matt Morley  

I love that! You mentioned stormwater there. 

I wanted to pick up on that topic because it's a big one in terms of sustainability and environmental impact. And there's clearly a lot of potential there. 

So how do you typically talk about the stormwater angle on a green roof when you are discussing options with a client? And what are the overall benefits and opportunities there from your perspective?

AB

Okay, so they have a program in Washington DC, where they're basically stormwater. It's such a major issue in Washington DC, that they're basically those buildings who manage more than what building code requires them to in terms of the amount of rainwater that they can hold on the rooftop are awarded credits. 

And those buildings who cannot manage enough rainwater on their property on their rooftop are fined exorbitant amounts of money. And then they basically then need to buy their way out of these fines by buying the credits from those people who have them for doing a better than basic building code level of managing stormwater. 

And there's a there's a stormwater credit trading program in Washington DC around this topic. And I expect this as because the cities are falling like dominoes here in North America who aren't mandating green roofs for any number of the reasons I mentioned earlier. 

And as you're going to see that stormwater becomes a bigger and bigger problem and as fresh quality water and cleaner waterways are becoming more prioritized, you're going to see stormwater credit trading programs like that implemented, and I and so what's happening is people are then realizing that they're, they are then motivated, especially at the beginning of design to turn their buildings into bathtubs that can hold as much water up on On the rooftop as possible, because the more that they can go about building code, that's just free money for that they basically get awarded these credits, which have real value. 

And so green roofs can do that we have these called Blue roofs and blue green roof, you could basically have a system that looks like a milk crate, these plastic cells that can be, you know, anywhere from 10 to 60 centimeters deep, filling the rooftop and then on top of that, you put paver stones so that people can walk around and they just think it's a regular amenity space, but really below them could be half a meter of empty void space where rainwater is stored instead of cisterns in the parking lots are underneath the building. 

And they are awarded annually, not an insignificant sum of money for doing so. Then the other thing we didn't talk about was green roofs when integrated with solar panels. 

Solar panels lose operating efficiency when the ambient air around them gets too hot but Plants cool the air around them through through evapo transpiration So when you install solar panels directly on top of green roofing, the plants cool the air underneath the solar panels and help them to produce more electricity. 

So even if you can squeak out half a percent improvement in the efficiency of a solar power plant a CFO of that company loves it. But if you can actually tell him, Hey, I'm going to reduce your efficiency loss by six to 8%. I mean, that's in the summer months, that is a massive amount of money. And so plus you didn't get so basically you have you have all the benefits of the green roof on the system, you have all the benefits sorry, the greener system, you have all the benefits of the solar system, and you get more electricity from the solar. So solar integrated, green roofs are big. 

And then if you want to combine all of them that below that you could have the 40-60cm of rainwater retention and the blue roof hidden beneath immediately beneath that green solar green roof area. So there's so much going on and rooftops and so much is going to happen in the next five years that people are going to realize rooftops are a vastly underutilized resource to either make bank or or solve climate change issues or improve mental health. You know, you name it.